Help building 9mm Commander

[Shorts]

I'm looking for a project to do, and instead of tinkering around with my husband's GI, I want to go ahead and put some work into a project of my own. I've been wanting a Commander, the real 4.25" barrel. And while brainstorming over options, the light clicked to do it in a 9mm instead of a .45acp. For all the Pro reasons of a 9mm. Don't even give me the "If it doesn't start with a .4" soapbox preachin', I don't want to hear it.

This isn't going to be an on-a-whim kind of thing, but I'm sure I might hear, "You'll spend more money trying to build one than you will just buying a new one". Which, in a .45, true. But in a 9mm, I think I can come in under a new cost, or at least break even. The satisfaction is in the project.

I'm picking up Kuhnhausen's Vol 1. A Colt .45, something I've been needing to do since getting the GI several months ago. I'm also looking at AGI's "The Ultimate 1911" video set. This is all dependent on available funds of course, how many I can get. But for now, Kuhnhausen's book is my priority.

Since getting ahold of commander receiver and slide can be a task, I figured I'll get them both from the same place and see if they'll fit them for me. It makes life easier. But if not, I'm looking forward to trying my hand at fitting a set. My biggest obstacle is in the the hardware, or lack there of. I don't have any presses and table tools, only a drill, Dremel and hand tools. Fitting a set of sights on a slide is something I don't think I could do. Milling the slide for sights is something I'd take to a 'smith to do for me. Why get the rest of the gun working right if the thing doesn't aim straight?

Well I gotta get the details worked out. From my understanding, a 9mm barrel comes ramped, right? Therefore the frame must be cut out to fit the barrel ramp. Is cutting the frame something the supplier can do for me if I specify when I order?

I'm not sure the parts I'm going to use, but I know this won't be the super top of the line stuff. I need parts that will work on a budget. Especially for first project like this, I'd hate to really mess up an expensive part. And when ordering all the frame parts, everything must be specified for a commander, correct? Do I have to specify it a 9mm?

I'm also not fully understanding the magazine thing. Will a 9mm magazine fit into a commander frame? I'm guessing that is dependent on the caliber specified when ordering frame...??

Anyhow, any insight will be helpful from those of yall that have tackled a project like this. I've been reading an researching a lot on project builds. Much of it has been about caliber conversions which doesn't mean too much to me other than general info and differences between the working parts. I'm building this frome scratch. Any tips on where to buy parts I'd appreciate.

 

[Jim Watson]

Since getting ahold of commander receiver and slide can be a task, I figured I'll get them both from the same place and see if they'll fit them for me.

*Buy from Caspian, they will prefit slide to receiver.

Milling the slide for sights is something I'd take to a 'smith to do for me.

*Caspian will also mill the slide for any of several common sights, front and rear. They will also cut for a beavertail and several other services difficult to do with handtools. For a fee, of course, but less than most 'smths charge. You need their print catalog, I find their website difficult.

From my understanding, a 9mm barrel comes ramped, right? Therefore the frame must be cut out to fit the barrel ramp.

*Not if it was a Colt. They use standard configuration barrels. My Colt with standard barrel feeds better than my Springfield with integral ramp.

Is cutting the frame something the supplier can do for me if I specify when I order?

*But if for some reason you select a ramped barrel, Caspian does that, too. Pick the barrel in advance, there are two more or less industry standard cuts, Clark/Para and Wilson/Nowlin, not interchangeable.

And when ordering all the frame parts, everything must be specified for a commander, correct? Do I have to specify it a 9mm?

*Well, the internal lockwork is all the same GM or Commander, any caliber. The BARREL must be specified for Commander and they should know the receiver is for 9mm as well as being a Commander. Recoil spring guide and plug are model specific and recoil spring is model and caliber specific. A real Colt Commander grip safety is specific but I don't know about Caspian, and it will be taken care of if you have it cut for a beavertail anyhow. Ejector for 9mm Commander, firing pin and extractor for 9mm.

I'm also not fully understanding the magazine thing. Will a 9mm magazine fit into a commander frame? I'm guessing that is dependent on the caliber specified when ordering frame...??

*All 1911 derivative magazines are the same OUTSIDE dimensions and go in the same magazine well. (Very embarrasing to put a magazine full of .45s in my 9mm gun. No warning until you try to chamber a round.) The 9mm caliber specific magazines have ribs and flutes stamped in to position the smaller caliber cartridges.

Any tips on where to buy parts I'd appreciate.

*Do you have a Brownell's print catalog? That is essential to any such project and the book is MUCH easier to browse than the website.


Do put a lot of thought into a complete buildup. You can read all day about fine homebuilts, but you never hear about the ruined parts sets that lurk in the backs of closets. I am NRA Mechanically Inept and I take such stuff to my gunsmith.

 

[Shorts]

Jim, thanks for shedding some light on my questions.

There are a couple things still confusing me a bit. On a Colt Commander, there are a couple "additional" pieces, such as the Plunger Lever (#31) and the Trigger Bar Lever (#52), that I don't *think* are on similar other platforms, such as the SA Champion. They're certainly not on the SA Govt Models. What do these pieces do?

My thinking is if I go with a whole Colt parts list, then I would need these parts. But if I went with say an SA parts list, then I wouldn't need them. Where is that extra space made up inside the frame? Are those levers sitting recessed into the sear and hammer of the Colt? Can I use a Colt parts list and not use them? Not really a big deal, they're just throwing me off. Here's the diagram:

 

[gamachinist]

That pic looks like a Series 80 with the firing pin safety "stuff".
It will be the same on a Gov't Model and a Commander,if they are both Series 80 guns.
The earlier guns did not have those parts,and many of the current guns by other manf's are on the original pattern,without the Series 80 "improvements".
Hope this helps,
Robert.

 

[Jim Watson]

Robert is correct, if you assemble a gun of original Commander configuration, part nos 10, 31, 32 and 52 will not be present.
A current Springfield parts diagram would also have superfluous parts comprising the ILS key-lock mainspring housing system. And the Springfield 4" Champion is no sort of Commander, there are several differences in construction.

 

[Shorts]

I just went through and documented a parts lists, who had what, what I'd be missing and so on. Like you said Jim, the ILS parts were left (going off an SA parts list).

For the Champion, I've never had one apart so I was just taking a stab One reason for going with the Colt Commander is that the parts are familiar to me with the Govt model.

 

[Mercury]

I heard of others that have started with a Colt .45 cal Commander frame and just put a complete 9mm top-end on it (The Commander ejector works with 9mm-sized cases). Use a 9mm slide stop, 9mm mags and you should be good to go.

Just make sure that you match series 70 to 70 and 80 to 80.

 

[Shorts]

Thanks for the help Merc. I'm still tossing ideas of how I'm going to go about this. Looking at past FS posts on 1911forum, it's cheaper and easier to go by way of complete Commander 9mm slide assembly. As for finding a frame, that seems harder to come by and I haven't really run across them other than bare froms from a manf.

Quick question, what the difference in a .45 slide stop and a 9mm slide stop? Why is that a caliber specific part?

 

[Mercury]

Shorts,

I can't remember why, but the 9mm SS is definitately required.
It probably has to do with how it interacts with the 9mm magazines so that it'll hold open on an empty mag.

On your quest to find a frame:
Also keep your eyes open for an Officer's frame, it has the same ejector as the Commmander and the Commander sized slide will fit it nicely, ala the CCO.

Good luck.

 

[Shorts]

Now that would be a great pistol

 

[CWatson]

Rock Island Armoury has started importing 9mm 1911s.Their "Commanders" have shorter slides than true Commanders. I have seen complete 45 and 38 Super complete lowers made by them for sale in Shotgun News.

I wonder if fitting a true commander slide,9mm or 38 Super with a 9mm barrel might be the easy way to go.

Rock Islands do not have the series 80 safty parts you asked about above.

CWatson

 

[Shorts]

Merc, I've been doing a lot of reading and searching. I found some info on the reason the slide stop is different on Govt and Commander models. Since the Commander frame uses the 9mm/.38super ejector (which is more centered in the slide for the smaller cartidge and is longer to eject the spent case in the shorter cycle), the spacing inside the slide is different than that of a Govt. A slide stop from a Govt. model does not clear the ejector if placed on a Commander (regardless of caliber). Even a .45 Commander uses a 9mm/38super ejector.

So if I understand everything correctly, the slide stop is frame specific because the ejector is frame specific.

 

[Jim Watson]

The slide stop and the ejector do not interact or require clearance, they are over half an inch apart on my Colt 1991A1 9mm which has the longest ejector I have ever seen. The slide stop is not frame specific, it is caliber, or rather head diameter, specific. Your hypothetical 9mm Commander will take the same slide stop as a .38 Super Government Model. If you use a Colt part it will be marked "3" on the back.

The .38/9mm slide stop has a longer stud to reach the narrower follower of those magazines. The difference is small, .030" or thereabouts, but it is needed for reliable slide stop actuation.

 

[Shorts]

Thanks for the clarification. I've been reading so much, went to bed last night and saw ejector threads and posts in my dreams

 

[gamachinist]

I was wondering about what the ejector had to do with the slide stop myself too.

Edited to remove my misinformation!

 

[Jim Watson]

My ACE .22 has a No 2 slide stop, not the No 3 of a Super.

 

[gamachinist]

I stand corrected,
It is the same as a 38 Special MidRange unit.
Oops!