help hitting birds

[hossdaniels]

alright, i've been practicing all summer and getting real good at killin skeet and bouncing empty hulls around, but i cant hit a damn bird to save my life. i practice incoming,crossing, and going away shots on clays and hit nearly everything, but i cant hit a bird.:banghead: am i just choking or should i try a different pointing method or what?

 

[somoss]

live vs clay

what kind of bird and how far away are they. my bet is you are leading the shot too much. if you are shooting something like chugar or pheasant i bet they travel a lot slower than the clay birds do. your muscle memeory is placing the shots a little to far ahead of the actual bird. choking? no pun intended, unlikely.also are you using the same ammo?

 

[hossdaniels]

mostly doves. i try to wait till they get inside 30 yds or so with light mod first and imp. mod second. using 1 1/8 of #8. i work outside and have been watching the birds fly around, they dont seem as fast as i thought, but i barely lead at all, just try to keep my swing up to speed.

 

[Hoppy590]

im mostly the opposite. i can down birds fairly well but cant get clays as well.

heres two pieces of advice i find usefull

birds are higher/further than you think
birds will glide, i prefer to hit them then

 

[sm]

Why we miss - Apologizes to Misseldine.

1. Gun does not fit . Ya'll knew I was going to say that...
Do you shoot skeet with the gun premounted?

What happens is folks "scrunch around the gun" , to make sure the bead, or if has two beads, folks make sure these are both "lined up" so the gun is NOT canted and then call for the Skeet/ Clay bird. One can "get by" to a degree shooting skeet with a gun that does not fit, one will notice they hit certain stations, and others they cannot.
Low 6 often surprises folks being able to hit it, and Cannot hit say high 2

In the field one does NOT have time to get "premounted", so one is not pointing where looking.

Shoot skeet / clay games from low gun to replicate field conditions with a gun that fits

>> Next..
>>Okay say the gun fits now ( because this stuff gets compounded real friggin' fast).

2. Correct basic fundamentals .
Mounting Gun to face . Repeat proper mounting of gun to face.
Foot position, stance, and all the other correct basics one must do everytime correctly , before they slap the trigger, and after they slap the triggers such as follow thru.

Do not call for the birds at skeet. Low gun, and if smart, do not stand directly on stations - get permission of course / Safety Rules - to stand a bit left, right, in back of or in front.

Programmed shooters, used to calling for the bird, that always shoot premounted guns , and have very little hunting experience - toss the best fits out bird hunting.

3. Pattern Board.

Skeet - one is supposed to know what the payload does at skeet ranges . Does that same load in your gun afford quality hits out to 30 yds? Or longer yardage.

4. Watch birds , applies to clay or game birds. Just watch. The brain and human computer take all this data in. Speed, angles and whatever.
I have had students do nothing but watch me pull targets, a whole round and them just stand there with no gun and watch.

Ever notice the older guys out in the country watching birds? How about the old timer with a cane, take that cane like a shotgun from low gun, and mount cane to face and swing thru a bird and whisper "bang" and continues to follow thru.
Take note, he will drop the gun, eyes never leaving a second bird, re mount gun to face and repeat.

That old timer will take a limit of 15 birds with only 15 shells. I am serious! Seen it too many times. I have been doing this myself since I was a brat.

I have kids and some ladies going on their first dove hunt. They are doing repetitions with shotguns practicing correct mounting to face and all the fundamentals, some are using a BB Gun. A few are using a cane in the back yard.

5. Never focus on anything but the most leading edge of any target.

Hopefully something above will assist.

Bird, belly, beak, bang...

 

[HSMITH]

Good advice from all so far. I am pretty thick-headed, dense, however you want to say it. I was a pretty solid hand with the clay birds but had a terrible time with real birds until I stumbled on a theory: If you miss pull out twice as much lead and shoot again, if you miss again pull out double the lead once more and shoot again. If you are missing birds it is 10-1 you are behind them, you need to get your brain to see how far out in front of a bird you actually need to be for the shot to hit. Your brain doesn't learn much from failure unless it is painful, you need to put some success in front of it for your brain to learn much. Shoot, double the lead and shoot, double the lead again and shoot. You will start hitting some birds, your brain will get its lead computer calibrated and you will start hitting more birds each time out. At least this is what worked for me.

 

[Steel Talon]

Hello Hoss,

I'll also echo... Increase your lead, and remember to continue the follow through with your swing.

Peace
Steel Talon

 

[TrapperReady]

As usual, good advice has preceeded me. Makes my job easier.

A couple of things I've found that helped me:

1) When I shoot at a dove, I'll take the first shot with the amount of lead I "think" I need. If it doesn't drop, I try to "miss in front" with the second shot. Often, that will drop the bird DRT.

2) Pass up the longer shots. If the bird is close enough that you can see details (eye, beak, feathers), then it's close enough to shoot. If it's only close enough that you can see "dove", then it's probably best to pass.

3) Especially if there is more than one bird in sight, make sure that you focus ALL of your attention on the one you want to hit. If that one falls, the focus your attention on another one... but do NOT pay attention to both, as you'll probably shoot somewhere between them and miss altogether.

4) Remember that clays targets are almost always slowing down. Birds are frequently speeding up. You'll need a little faster swing and more lead on a live critter.

5) Hunt as often as you can. At some point it will all click. *


---------------------

* Confession time: I'm a pretty decent sporting clay shooter. I usually average around 24/25 at trap and shoot in the mid-80's on most tournament difficulty sporting clay courses. I've hunted upland birds for years, with good results. Well, about 3 years ago, I decided to take up duck hunting. That first season had a very steep learning curve. I couldn't hit squat. I was doing almost everything wrong: shooting at birds too far away, looking at a whole group of birds instead of picking one out, you name it. However, by the end, I had a little success. The next year, I was hammering geese and ducks with regularity. Something had clicked for me. It will for you too.

 

[PJR]

How are you practicing? If you are shooting standard skeet with a pre-mounted gun and target released on "pull" then you aren't getting as much out of the practice as you could. Get more randomness in your practice. Have the bird released before you expect it from random directions. Shoot gun down always.

In the field the problem I see frequently with new hunters is "flush fever," the upland version of "buck fever" which causes hunters to poke at flushing birds and not focus on the fundamentals. When the bird flushes force yourself to wait a second and get your eyes firmly on the bird before moving on the target. I'd also second the advice of more lead.

I'd also open my chokes. Doves aren't bullet proof and LM and IM with #8 is tighter than I would choose for shots within 30 yards. FWIW, my grouse gun is choked Skeet and LM and the combination of chokes you are using is what I like for pheasant.

 

[birddog]

Bird, belly, beak, bang...

That's very good advice, and a lot less wordy than I was going to be.

Concentrate on the bird, not the shotgun.

 

[hossdaniels]

thanks for all the replies. i dont ever premount my shotgun, so that aint it. i will try different leads to see how that works. i dont really call for the clays either, just make sure i'm loaded.

bird bellly beak bang sounds like a good plan, will give it a shot.

 

[sm]

Double check the gun fit.

As we age, or if we undergo any changes due to injury, surgery, young and still going thru growing stages, or shrinking due to getting older...

Gun fit can and will change with the shooter. What used to fit, don't.

One needs to check POA/POI.

Get 2 - 3 pcs of typing paper, [ depends on two barrel gun or repeater] and put a black dot in the middle of each. Set these about 3- 5 yds apart. Distance of 21 yds out.

Observe all Safety Rules.

1. Close eyes, low gun, then mount gun to face and shoot as fast as can.
See where pattern denisty is.
Me, being me, I do this with slugs.

2. El Presidente' - shotgun version is what I do.

Same as above with the paper. Again me being me I most often use slugs. This time the paper may be numbered big enough to see, or use colored paper, or the persons with me yell out "right" , "left" or "center".

I start with my back to targets, muzzle up and at the start, Turn I shoot at what order I am told as fast as can.

I turn the same way / direction I do when I do this with a handgun...I do this with rifles too..

If the gun fits well, POA/ POI will be consistent. If not, again one will see the "off" POA/ POI being duplicated each shot.

Last time I did this drill, they tripped the cord and the Tueller Drill was heading at me...they didn't tell me we were gonna do dat. I was shooting a gun that was new to a student, and honestly did not fit me very well....I also did not shoot Target #3 as they yelled at me to shoot...I just got a shot off on the Tueller...not dead center, but close enough for gumbmint work.

I don't mind very well sometimes....

My point being, I have seen folks start missing certain birds, presentations. They may be seasoned folks, so we problem solve, and many times it has been their body changed for some reason, and the gun that did fit, now does not.

--

Distance was mentioned - how true!

If you do not already do so now, start doing this now. Start guaging distances. With my stride, one step is about a yard. Measure yours to get an idea.
"That blue car is 25 steps/ yards away in the parking lot" - then step it off. Turn around and look at starting point. Get the human computer programmed to guage distance.

Dove hunting, Duck hunting I/we use distance markers. Dekes are easy to set out and know distances. So are doves, I use gray shop rags, I have been known to invert a empty coke can on a pc of vegetation and tell a kid that his their shooting distance...wait until the dove comes to you within that distance and shoot.

Size of targets make a difference. I got kids /ladies about to go on first dove hunt, using ping pong balls painted gray and setting them in the house, in the back yard and guaging distances. I mean if a dove gets within one kids bedroom and living room distance, that dove is a goner.

Midi and ZZ birds...oh yeah, go watch these to train the brain. Don't have to shoot, just pay attention to a regular clay and midi being tossed the exact same path, angle and distance. That midi will look further away.


I'm serious, I have folks setting out shop rags, gray ping pong balls, or soda cans with the ends pointed at them- in the back yard, kids and their mom's moving and changing distances and a game as to how many "steps" to these.

Now up in the sky this all appears different too. So up in a tree there is a gray shop rag, directly underneath it is a shop rag too. Mom and kid walk all over the yard, and stop at various places to gauge the distance from various places.

"Well I don't want to shoot looking at the sun mom, it messes me up as to how far it is".

I know , this all sounds dumb, but these folks are new to shooting, and never hunted doves before. This will work...I've done this before.

 

[stevehaun]

Bird, belly, beak, bang...

Talk about ZEN...
This will be my new mantra!
steve h

 

[redneck2]

they dont seem as fast as i thought, but i barely lead at all, just try to keep my swing up to speed.

three guesses from a fellow dove hunter

1) You're shooting behind

2) You're shooting behind

3) You're shooting behind

do the math. If the bird is doing 40 mph, that's 58 feet a second. If your shot is doing 1,200 fps, it takes 1/10th of a second to get there. The bird has covered about 6 feet. If you're shooting at the beak, you're 6 feet behind with the center of the pattern. swing thru... swing thru

 

[RKellogg]

All I can tell you is what my Dad told me a long time ago , " Quite thinking about it and just shoot the F**KING bird " .

 

[The Deer Hunter]

nothin can prepare you better than experiance.

got you club when all the older trappers/skeeters hang around and talk to them about your probs.

the best help i get is by guys from the club

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Kellog thats also a good way too.

 

[RKellogg]

Deer Hunter
It works better then most people think .

 

[pat86323]

Im with kellogg on that one....i used to miss all the time. Then one time i was out dove hunting and was 100% convinced that they were in fact shotgun proof and in a state of frustration i just kinda took a pop shot at one and it dropped. Once i stopped thinking about the shot and just started reacting the birds started falling. So quit thinking and shoot the birds. You seem to have the fundamentals down pretty well so just increse your lead a bit and shoot.

 

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All that good adivice above is very complete but incase thats not the problem, which it prolly is but w/e. Most people around here use a shorter barrel and maybe even a cylendrical choke.