Help Identify Revolver – Colt?

[samadams]

I hope that someone can help me identify this revolver. It was handed down to me and is special (not trying to value for sale), but I really do not know much about the gun.

It has Colt grips and strongly resembles a Colt Police Positive. However, there are no markings on the barrel. There is also no Colt logo on the frame. It has half moon front sight. The serial number is 350XX and is stamped on the frame under the crane (with a large X under the number). The same serial number is also stamped on crane itself. It is stamped 21C on the butt. It is 6 shot. 4” barrel (measured from the front of cylinder to end of barrel). A .38 special cartridge fits in the cylinder. I've never fired the weapon.

Right after these photos were taken, I pulled the grips to look for other markings and found none ( I removed the Mershon Co. “Sure Grip” Adapter size 6).

Any ideas? Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, it appears to have been re-blued at least once, maybe more.

And it appears there may be some heavy pitting still under the bluing above the trigger, above the grip, and on the hammer.

Could be they just plum wore all the markings off when they polished & re-blued it once or twice?

rcmodel

 

[samadams]

With the absence of barrel markings, I thought that it might be a clone. So assuming your over-blued (or over polished) suggestion is correct -- proofhouse.com and that serial number puts the date of manufacture at 1911? Wow.

So does that make this a Colt 1911 revolver?

 

[rcmodel]

Hey! I was just guessing.

Maybe Old Fuff or other Colt DA expert will be along and shed more light on it.

rcmodel

 

[samadams]

I appreciate the input. Let me see if I can get a better photo.

 

[Iggy]

Considering the condition of the gun as a result of some rather boisterous buffing the adapter is probably worth more than the gun.

 

[Master Blaster]

It sure does look just like a Colt.
Could it be a colt that was issued to a secret agent and they didnt want it traced back to the USA.

Thats it a special secret agent gun.

Or maybe it was taken out of the factory in someone's lunch box prior to the marking and rollstamping, factory second parts maybe??

 

[samadams]

Better shot of the finish.

 

[samadams]

That 21C on the butt??? I've not been able to find any reference to that as a model number, or anything.

 

[Old Fuff]

It appears to be a Colt .38 Army Special or Official Police, but the stated serial number is to low for either. The stocks are of the kind usually found on Official Police models. You might remove them as see if either panel has the serial number written in pencil on the inside. In any case you need to re-check the serial number.

"21C" was probably a rack or issue numper, put there by a government or commercial police/security agency. Given the "bench grinder" polishing job I am not surprised that markings are missing. I would otherwise expect to find the model and cartridge/caliber stamped on the side of the barrel.

 

[Jim K]

Whoever did that "polishing" job apparently used a grinder, possibly because the gun was a rusted out relic. Note that the crane lock and crane lock screw have been ground down so the screw slot is gone, and there is hardly any sign they were even there. A truly horrible job. IMHO, if the gun shoots, OK, but it is really worthless as a collectible.

Jim

 

[samadams]

Thank you for the comments ( I did ask for your opinions). While I'll not try to convince you that the gun is in perfect shape – I believe that the photographs must be misleading on the true condition. The screw slots are in fine condition. The surface of the gun does not appear to have been polished in an extreme way. I rechecked the serial numbers and they are as I initially reported – 350XX. I removed the grips to inspect the inside...no makings on the grips themselves – but I did notice an M stamped into the frame under the grips. I've added more photographs that might reflect the true condition.

The gun belonged to a family friend who has since passed away. He was in the Navy during WWII.

 

[samadams]

That second photo just posted shows the frame with the grips off. The "M" is on that middle brace. I've looked at the gun photos here for years -- but now have a better appreciation for how difficult it is to take a good photo of a handgun.

 

[Old Fuff]

You got me.

The revolver appears to be either an Army Special, or an identical revolver that followed it called the Official Police.

The lowest number on the Army Special was in the 291,000 range, starting in 1908. When the name change went into effect in 1927 they continued the serial numbers starting around 513,216.

A number in the 35,000 ballpark would be an entirely different revolver (New Army & Navy model) made in 1895. I am sure that your revolver is not one of these.

 

[samadams]

Thanks for your input. Were there any mass produced "non-colt" copies of the Army Special/Official Police? I keep thinking that the lack of barrel markings, and now the low serial numbers point to a non-colt manufacturer.

 

[tipoc]

I think Old Fuff is right.

So that you have a clearer idea of the extent of the polishing that has been done on your gun I'm posting two pics of older Colt wheel guns with their original finish. Note the screws.

Colt New Service from 1921. Also note the design of the cylinder latch.





Below an Officer's Model Match from the early 30s.





The gun has been heavily polished and this may have altered the readable part of the serial number. You may want to look at this area more closely under a good light and a magnifying glass. The design of the cylinder latch alone tells us that the gun can't be as early as the low number you give would tend to indicate. So take a closer look.

tipoc

 

[samadams]

Thanks for taking a look Tipoc. I've just assessed under the brightest light in the house. Under this light I see more indications that you guys might be on to something with the heavily polished (scratches around the base of the front site). However, I can not see how I could be wrong on the serial number. Even under the bright light -- it is centered within the space. I do not see how I could be missing a digit (or two). Could the "X" under the serial number on the frame indicate why this gun has such a low serial number? I keep thinking bootleg, or knockoff. I really appreciate the ideas guys -- while it has little monetary value, it is sentimental and I'd like to know more about it.
Sam

 

[Old Fuff]

If the serial number was in the 350,xxx range, rather then 35,xxx It would match up to an Army Special made in 1913. Your pictures match the Army Special description. The walnut stocks are from a later period, as the original stocks were likely made from black hard-rubber.

 

[tipoc]

You may want to drop by here...

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/

Folks there may be able to help a bit more.

tipoc

 

[ghostsix]

I too noticed the cylinder latch. That is like my Dick Spec.
I think it a Colt. But I would ask the NRA. They would know, or could find out.

 

[Coyote3855]

tipoc, that is one sweet New Service.

 

[tipoc]

tipoc, that is one sweet New Service.

Thanks. Colt made them well.