Help identify S&W M&P

[spook]

I would like to know the approximate age of a S&W I purchased. I got it from a widow who wanted it out of the house after her husband died and she knew nothing about it. The number under to crane is 905xx and on the bottom of the grip 6763xx.

 

[Hutch]

It looks to be a bit of an odd duck. The frame looks like a pre-war model, but the barrel doesn't have the correct front sight for that time. I am not sure, but I think the barrel has been shortened, as it doesn't have the front lug for the ejector rod. There should be a serial number on the barrel flat above the ejector rod that matches the S/N on the frame. The number under the crane is of no real consequence, as it is some internal build number or somesuch.

 

[spook]

Thanks Hutch. There is no number on the barrel flat and the only other number I can find is on the crane and it matches the number under the crane.

 

[Trebor]

The number on the bottom of the grip is the serial number. The number on the crane and under the crane is the assembly number used to keep the pieces that would become this gun together during assembly before serial number was stamped.

Here's something to check quick: Does the gun have a model number stamped in the yoke? Like "10-5" or anything else? S&W switched from model names to model numbers in 1958 and the model number would be stamped in the yoke if it was made after 1958.

 

[Hutch]

Not to be a smarty-pants, but the frame is a pre-war frame, based on the appearance of the dimple under the thumb-latch. That disappeared during the "Victory Model" run during the war. IIRC, it was a part of the internal safety mechanism (a hammer block or some such). Since this is so, and since there's no alphabetic prefix to the S/N, this is definately not a model-numbered gun. I don't have the SCOSW here, but I'd guess that S/N puts in in the mid-to-late 1930's as a born-on date. I'd be a little concerned by the fact that the barrel has no front lug for the ejector rod to lock into, but my concern might not be well-founded. Certainly Colt made that work in their DA revolvers. The original 2-inch M&P's had a much shorter ejector rod that permitted the front of the rod to latch into the front lug-thingie. (technical term, I know... )

 

[Majic]

I'd be a little concerned by the fact that the barrel has no front lug for the ejector rod to lock into, but my concern might not be well-founded. Certainly Colt made that work in their DA revolvers.

Colt didn't need a locking lug for the ejector rod because the cylinder rotates toward the frame and the hand helped to hold it in place. S&W rotates away from the frame and the front locking lug secures the crane to the frame against this torque.

 

[FPrice]

spook...

What caliber is this? Is it printed on the right side of the barrel?

Is there a star on the butt after the serial number?

My first impression is that this is an after-market barrel job. It just does not look "right" otherwise.

If this is a .38 Special, my guess on what little I can see is that this probably started off life as a .38 M&P Model 1905 4th Change dating to about the 1930's.

 

[car541]

I may be nuts, but the barrel countour back near where it hits the frame looks like a colt police positive or DS barrel.

I have a picture of the back of the barrel on an old Police positive, but I am unable to upload it.

It looks very similar to the one on that M&P.

 

[spook]

Wow, I thought this thread was dead. After the first reply I didn't receive any more email notices.
There are no markings on the barrel and it can't be cocked. Although it functions fine double action, you can't draw the hammer back. I have no intention of shooting this revolver and I purchased it as a curiosity for $50.

 

[thatguy]

It is definitely a pre-war frame with the wrong barrel put on. Somebody rebuilt this as a snubby. For $50 it's worth fixing. I bought a similar gun for $60 4 years ago with a damaged barrel. I found a replacement barrrel on ebay for $5 and swapped it myself even though everyone said not to do it. A smith wanted over $100 to do the work and that made the project too costly. I used a punch to knock the barrel retaining pin out then soaked the gun in penetrating oil for a day or two to loosen the threaded parts. Then I clamped the barrel in between two pieces of 1x4 in the jaws of a large bench vise and using a large hammer handle inserted through the cylinder window I unscrewed the old barrel fairly easily. The worst part was getting the pin back in after screwing on the new barrel. You really have to get everything lined up perfectly. Whole job took about an hour (that gunsmith who wanted over $100 makes good money, don't he?) with at least half of the time being spent fiddling with the pin trying to reinstall it. The barrel-cylinder gap was about .009 with the new barrel and while a tad big, it's within specs and I was happy with it. The gun shoots fine, now.

Majic- Yes, Colt doesn't support the ejector rod at the front, and never did, and that might make a difference since S&W INTENDED for it to be supported. I have seen quite a few butchered Victory Models and I wouldn't trust one that has been cut up by an shade tree gunsmith. Replacing parts is one thing, but when someone takes a hacksaw to the gun I start to worry.

 

[Lone Star]

I'm astonished that none of you guys picked up on this. Think Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is one of those butchered S&W Victory Models sold here as snubs after some awful barrel shortening. It is the same thing that Oswald used to shoot Dallas PD Officer J.D. Tippett in the Texas Theater.

Most were reamed out to take .38 Special cartridges instead of the original British .38/200 chambering.

If overall condition merited it, one could fit it with a replacement barrel and cylinder in the correct caliber. Might even be able to substitute .38 Special Victory parts. But it wouldn't be worth it, unless the gun had great sentimental value.

Oh: if you do fire .38 Specials in it, the cases may well split, as the .38 S&W regular (not Special) ctg. is wider. Do NOT fire .38 Special Plus P's.

Lone Star

 

[spook]

CenterfireSystems has a model 10 parts kit including barrel and cylinder for $60. That doesn't seem to bad a deal to turn this revolver into a shooter as it's tight and in good condition.

 

[thatguy]

I bet you do even better shopping around. I see M10 barrels and cylinders on ebay selling for $10-$20 all the time. Just make sure they are pre-Model 10 Military & Police parts as there may be differences with the later parts. I have found S&Ws to be good about parts swapping. Colts are awful. Too much hand fitting.