Help Identifying a S&W 38 Special Revolver

[retlawblackhawk]

Hello,

I just acquired a S&W 38 Special Revolver from my wife's grandfather and was wondering if someone could help me identify it.

On the left side of the gun is the S&W Trademark Logo.
On the right side it says "Made in USA" and nothing else.
Has checkered Walnut Grips with a S&W Emblem on each side.
Serial # is 610202, no preceeding letter. This Serial # is on the butt, on the cylinder and on the underside of the barrel above the ejector barrel.
6" Barrel.
Blued.
Fixed Sights.
Left side of the barrel says "Smith and Wesson"
Right side of barrel says "38 S&W. Special CTG
The top of the barrel has patents up till Dec. 29. 14

http://home.comcast.net/~retlaw357/pwpimages/S&W1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~retlaw357/pwpimages/S&W2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~retlaw357/pwpimages/S&W3.jpg

Thanks for any help.

Walter

 

[Sunray]

Hi. It's a standard fixed sight 'K' frame. Very decidedly not a bad thing. Especially in that condition.
Open the cylinder and look at the number on the frame where the crane sits when closed. There will be a number likely with a dash and another number. That'll give you the model number and variation. (I'm betting it says 10-something) Then look here.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp

 

[retlawblackhawk]

Sunray,

Thanks for the information. I checked and the number is 22774, it looks like there might be more space after the first 2 so that it may be 2 2774. The number is also on the crane part of the cylinder as well.

Can't seem to find what it would be on that link you provided.

Thanks for the information on the No. 2 MK I, very helpful.

Walter

 

[Old Fuff]

Sunray:

You're right, and wrong.

Smith & Wesson introduced the Military & Police model in 1899, but didn't go to model numbers until 1957. So any M&P revolver that is stamped with a model number (in this case model 10) will also have a serial number with a letter prefix, or maybe suffix.

The number on the frame behind the yoke ("crane" is Colt-talk ) is an assembly number, and for purposes of identification should be ignored. However that is the place where Colt did stamp the serial number on post-1908 hand ejector revolvers. All of this tends to add to confusion...

In this case you don't have a model 10, but rather a .38 M&P/1905 Hand Ejector, 4th Chg. The exact date of manufacture can only be determinded by going to the company, but I would say approximately 1931 or '32.

Given the family history, I suggest that you pay the fee and get it lettered. At this time expect at least an 8-week wait.

Information concerning historical letters of authentication from Smith & Wesson’s historian, Roy G. Jinks can be obtained from the link listed below.

In exchange for a $50.00 research fee (make any check out to Smith & Wesson, not Mr. Jinks) he will search through the company’s original records until he finds your particular revolver. He will then send you an official letter which usually includes:

A short history of the revolver model’s background.

What the barrel length, caliber/cartridge, finish and stocks were, as well as the exact date it was shipped from the factory – and to what distributor, dealer or individual – as whatever the case may be.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=25301&sectionId=10504

 

[retlawblackhawk]

Old Fuff,

Thank you very much for the information, I am definitely going to get it lettered as I plan on keeping it in the family for a long time to come.

One additional question, I do definitely want to at least test fire the gun and was wondering what type of ammo to use. Considering its age I certainly don't want any +P ammo but wanted to verify that simple 130gr .38 Special ammo would be acceptable.

Thanks again for all the help.

Walter

 

[Jim Watson]

The usual econoball 130 grain will be safe enough, but it will probably shoot closer to the sights with 158 grain bullets that were standard in those days.

 

[Old Fuff]

Jim is right, the sights on the revolver are supposed to shoot to point-of-aim @ 20 yards, using the old "Standard .38 Special Police" load which consisted of a 158-grain round-nose lead bullet with a muzzle velocity of 870 FPS out of a 6-inch barrel. The lead bullet being softer then a full coper jacketed one, is also easier on the bore. With the right ammunition I think you will find it's a tack driver.

This particular .38 Special load is now sometimes difficult to find, as it is no longer popular with law enforcement or defensive shooters. However it can still be special ordered, and is also available from smaller companies that provide ammunition for the Cowboy Action Shooting sport.

Since you want to shoot the revolver - and there is no reason you shouldn't if it's in sound condition - be aware that it doesn't have a positive hammer block (introduced in 1945) and therefore should be carried with no more then 5 rounds, with the hammer resting on an empty chamber.

While it's not particularly important, I noticed that the stocks appear to be replacements, the style of which was introduced in late 1945 or early 1946. These in themselves are worth around $70 to $100 to some collectors.

 

[Jim K]

Just FWIW, here are some S&W M&P serial numbers gleaned from various sources. The comments are my own.

Smith & Wesson Serials
K-frame, including M&P (see Note 2)
291000 range 1919 (Army for A.E.F. 50 guns for inter-allied pistol competition)
346436 1920 (Army 50 guns for Olympic Games)
6245xx-6246xx 1932 (U.S.M..C 1000 guns.)
627375-627975 1932 (included in above order)
644909 1933 (Army 1 K-22 – in SA museum)
646994-648882 1934 (U.S.C.G. 25 guns, shipped 11/19)
650929-650953 1935 (U.S.C.G. 25 guns, C.G. emblem post-factory)
6515xx 1935 (Mentioned, no other info)
655903-657464 1936 (U.S.C.G. 12 K-22’s)
655165-655315 1937 (Army 4 K-22’s)
Unknown 1939 (Interior for Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, SD)
740xxx-760xxx* 1941 (Navy 3000 guns for U.S. Navy Civilian Police Corps)
794000-796000 1941 (Army 155 guns for U.S. Constructing Quartermaster, New River, VA Ordnance Depot
835537-836611 1941 (Army 300 guns for U.S.C.Q., Ravenna, OH, Ordnance Depot

*From 3/11/40 to 2/27/41, all S&W production was of the .38/200 model for Britain; on the latter date, increased capacity allowed resumption of .38 Special production.

Notes:
1. Serial numbers are ranges in which the shipped guns will be found, not the range of the shipped guns.
2. All K frame guns were serial numbered in the same series.
3. Date is shipping date, not manufacturing date.
4. There are discrepancies with other data. For example, “the first WWII” shipment is cited as about serial number 612000 shipped to South Africa. But that gun was probably made in the late 1920’s. There are no explanations for this and similar discrepancies.

Jim

 

[retlawblackhawk]

Thanks everyone for all your help, excellent information.

I've already got my form completed to get it lettered by S&W, can't wait to get a response.

Walter

 

[Old Fuff]

4. There are discrepancies with other data. For example, “the first WWII” shipment is cited as about serial number 612000 shipped to South Africa. But that gun was probably made in the late 1920’s. There are no explanations for this and similar discrepancies.

I think the answer is that by 1940 they had an extraordinary number of serial numbered frames which had been made during earlier times, but not made into finished revolvers. The reason they continued to make frames and other parts during the Great Depression, even as demand fell, was that they didn't want to lay off they're skilled employees on which they were dependent. In fact, they didn't even have a complete set of blueprints for their bread-and-butter K-frame Military & Police revolver, because they could (and did) manufacturer precise parts without them. The company almost went bankrupt, but the substantial supply of previously useless parts allowed them to shift into overdrive just before and during World War Two.