Help identifying old cap and ball pistol

[moliver]

Recently inherited this old looking cap and ball pistol and am trying to indentify it. The only markings on it are the number 87 on the bottom of the barrel in front of the nipple. Appears to be about a .32 cal with 6 sided barrel, as you can see cap fits in holder on botton of pistol and strikes nipple when trigger is pulled. Any and all information will be appreciated. I believe it may be from a kit but not sure. Thanks Mike

 

[Cannonball888]

Looks like a screw barrel pistol. You screw the barrel off to load it.

 

[Roswell 1847]

These were often called "Boot Pistols"
They actually carried them tucked into a high topped boot, usually a pocket for it was sewn into the lining.
Another method of carry was a tublar leather sheath sewn to a man's braces(suspenders) usually carried in pairs.

 

[moliver]

Any idea how old it might be?

 

[Whitedogsbuddy]

It's likely from the 1840's to 60's. Probably in the 1850's. It's an underhammer pistol. Original

 

[BEARMAN]

It is an UNDER HAMMER GUN not a SCREW BARREL. The under hammer guns are supposed to be a true American design, very quick and simple to make.

 

[SDC]

It could be any one of a number of different manufacturers, but the only way to know for sure is to go over it with a magnifying glass to find any markings or patent dates. Hopkins and Allen made lots of pistols like these (called either "saloon pistols" or "boot pistols") but they were usually marked somewhere along one of the flats on the barrel.

 

[Roswell 1847]

It is an UNDER HAMMER GUN not a SCREW BARREL.[/quote
It could be both, I can't make out a join, it could be rusted over perhaps just in front of the octagon section, but the muzzle shows the deep ratchet like appearance of some screw barrel pistols. The barrel key fits into the deep cuts at the muzzle. This is sometimes mistaken for rifling, and since the pistol has no rear sight its probably not rifled.

I think you are right that the under hammer is an American invention. I think Hopkins and Allen are credited with it.
Its used on many Buggy rifles and larger long range rifles.

I've fired a Hopkins and Allen reproduction .58 caliber once.
It took 300 grains of Black Powder and a one thousand grain two piece slug. hard alloy nose section was swaged to a softer lead base and then wrapped in paper.
It loaded with a false muzzle and a twin lever that clamped on the muzzle and inched the ramrod down slightly with each stroke.

I would guess that the cap is meant to stay on by a tight fit rather than be set in the hammer recess.

 

[Jim K]

The trigger guard is apparently missing. I am pretty sure there was one, not only for safety but because on most of those boot pistols the trigger guard was a spring that also acted as the hammer spring. Caps normally stayed on by friction, but I have seen one boot pistol that had a spring arrangement to hold the cap on. The hammer struck the spring, which struck the cap.

Jim

 

[SDC]

Not necessarily; Ethan Allen/Allen & Wheelock/Hopkins & Allen made plenty of pistols of this style with the same sort of internal mainspring that they used on their pepperbox designs, and if a trigger-guard was added to a pistol like this, it would make it difficult to cock when you needed it.

 

[Jim K]

Well, I don't know about "plenty." Some of the early Ethan Allen pistols had no trigger guards, which is why I said "most." Pepperboxes often had ring triggers without guards, but there was little safety problem with those as they were what we would call DAO. Still more often than not, when I see a boot pistol with no trigger guard, it is because the guard was removed or broke. Without better information, of course, I can't be sure about that specific gun.

Jim

 

[Roswell 1847]

I don't see any attachment point for a triggerguard not even a spur trigger sheath.
Theres a screw through the frame just behind the trigger but its flush ans countersunk and not the right spot for the tail of a guard, its likely the spring screw. I've seen this with springs that had threaded holes rather than being screwed down and held by a screwhead.
This sort of spring is often adjustable for tension from the outside.

Really hard to say with such an unusual design.

Underhammer guns have some advantages. Theres less likelyhood of cap framents striking the face and less to distract from the sight picture. Those being advantages better appreciated when the gun is a target rifle.

BTW
That .58 I fired made a locust fence post look like a paint brush and blew a two foot section into a rain of toothpicks.

 

[Jim K]

Good point, Roswell. On a second look, I don't see any indication of a trigger guard either. Maybe Moliver will give us some more info on whether the gun works and if there is spring tension on the hammer.

Jim