Help IDing old .30-40 rifle. Difficult one here.

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SKILCZ

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Pics to come soon (didn't have camera when I saw it). Sorry!

Looks like a bolt action, but the bolt doesn't look like it rotates. Has a ghost ring type peep rear sight and front sight blade. Has 2 triggers with a set screw or something between them. Wood stock runs the full length of the barrel and balloons out under the muzzle. Hexagonal receiver. Has a stripper clip type magazine-looking thing that inserts into the bottom. Slotted rectangular hole in the bottom of the receiver appears to accept this stripper clip or magazine, but the front to back length of the opening is smaller than the length of the .30-40 cartridge.

NOT a Springfield or any of the Winchester high walls I've seen. I have no idea what this is. Outside chance it may be Belgian.

Anyone know much about .30-40 rifles? Or know where to find pics of them so I can ID it?
 
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Are you sure the clip/magazine inserts from the bottom?

If it accepts the clip as a whole, it's more likely to insert from the top with the bolt open. That would push a spring or a spring-loaded lever down, and the empty clip would fall out the bottom once empty.
 
Good call. I thought that was it, but I couldn't get the bolt open and didn't want to break it. Wanted to learn more about it and figure out how to open it correctly.

Now that you mention it, there was a spring-loaded lever I saw inside the well in the bottom.

Thoughts on what it might be? (I know it's asking a lot w/o pics, but I'm trying to get pointed in the right direction until I can get a pic).
 
Sorry to ask, but how do you know it's 30-40? Two old military rifles, often sporterized, come to mind that have a hole in the bottom for the clip to fall out-Steyr 1895 rifles, and GEW 88's.
Neither has a receiver I'd call hexagonal, though.
 
It has boxes of .30-40 ammo with it and a few rounds inside the stripper clip.

No manufacturer markings anywhere that I can see, and no caliber markings.

Has a Hawkins recoil pad on it (I assume aftermarket, but not sure when those were first made). The rifle is definitely old.

The 2 trigger thing really threw me. I assume one is a set trigger.
 
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Bolt handle goes straight out parallel to the ground with no angle. I will get a pic ASAP. Can't find anything on the internet that looks like it. Searches for .30-40s seem to bring up the Springfields and Winchester high walls.
 
If it is not a turnbolt, then it has to be a straight pull. There are several different Mannlicher straight pull actions. But in a full stock with peep sight in .30-40 Krag? Somebody had WAY too much time on his hands.
 
Yes, .30-40 is not that different from .303.
Which leads me to think that if it IS a turnbolt, then it may be a Dutch Mannlicher. A lot of those were rebored to .303 so Dutch forces outside occupied Holland could use British ammo. Just as easy to make it a Krag.
 
I think we need to wait until the OP can get us pictures.

SKILCZ, can you check when you can to be sure the gun is in .30-40, not just that there are .30-40 cartridges with it.

Jim
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I think it's some sort of Mannlicher variant. Maybe one of the Steyrs. Are there any Belgian Mannlicher variants? The owner of this gun was of pure Belgian descent.

The triggers look a lot like the double set Mannlicher-Schoenauer triggers with regulating screw shown here. It also has the hand-carved cheek rest shown.

TRIGGERS.jpg


What leads me to believe it's a .30-40 is that it belonged to a deceased person who owned only two guns, and two types of ammunition were found with those guns. The stripper clip (or whatever it is) had the .30-40 rounds in it, and in the same bag were a few factory boxes of .30-40 ammo with manufacturer markings, etc. The other gun was a shotgun with corresponding ammo, so I know it's not that ammo. Everything was meticulously stored.

Will post pics once I get back to where the gun is. They wouldn't let me take it home yet, but hopefully in the near future so I can post pics of the actual rifle. I've been tasked with finding out what it is.

The bolt is a straight pull and looks a lot like this, as does the little knob sticking up at the back of the bolt, as well as the stripper clip:

1288247094.jpg

The bolt had a steel button on the left side. The front of the receiver was hexagonal on top, though, unlike the one above.

The bottom of the receiver looks a lot like this:

1288247136.jpg

It has the two triggers of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer shown above and a hexagonal receiver. I will get pics next time I get out there and post ASAP.

Stock looks a bit like this but balloons out a bit more at the front:

Photo2556.jpg

There is something metal going through the front of the stock like this that felt like it was designed to be able to be removed:

attachment.jpg

Thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions. I know it's not much help without pics. You have very much helped point me in the right direction, and I'm going to figure out exactly what it is eventually, once I can get pics on here. Whatever else you can find out, especially if there are any Belgian Mannlicher variants, would be much appreciated.

To me, so far it looks like a cross between a Steyr Mannlicher M95 (receiver, bolt) and a Mannlicher-Schoenauer (triggers, stock) with the full length wood stock. So I'm assuming it's some sort of Mannlicher variant, possibly from Belgium. Why it's .30-40 I cannot figure out. I can't imagine a guy with two guns and two types of ammo stored neatly away had the wrong caliber ammo, but I guess anything's possible.
 
Belgian proof marks are profuse and distinctive, there is no need to wonder whether a gun is from Belgium. The owner's ancestry doesn't matter much. I have guns from Belgium, Germany, France, and Japan, but none from the British Isles where my family came from.

As to the combination of ingredients, about every military rifle ever made has been sporterized or used as a basis for a sporting gun. I still think that is what you have here.
 
could be chambered in 303 brit, or 7.62X54. in either chamber you can safely fire 30-40 krag ammo. the 30-40 ammo headspaces on the rim and fireforms to fit the bigger chambers.

there was a time when 30-40 ammo was cheap surplus in the USA (1920-1960) and was commonly used in nagants made by remington that were never shipped to russia because the russians failed to make payment in 1918 or so, and in enfields that were surplussed in 1950-65.
 
Thanks for your patience. As promised, click below for album with pics:

th_TopReceiver.jpg

Thoughts?

Also, anyone know how to open the action on this thing? Looks like a straight pull bolt to me, but something is locking it in place. Do I depress the little lever/button on the left side of the bolt? If so, it seems stuck. Don't want to damage it. But I'm guessing pushing that button is what I need to do.
 
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Here is what is it, or was before it was turned into a sporting rifle by some old world gun maker.

http://www.hungariae.com/Mann95.htm

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/SEP-01/historic-september01.html

Orginial caliber was 8x50mm rimmed, and I'd almost bet that is what yours is.

The cases were likely formed from 30-40 brass by a reloader.

My advice would be to slug the bore and see if it is 8mm or .30 cal now.

Clips:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=64

rc
 
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Definitely an Austrian M95, all the work other than the recoil pad looks European. The photos show the bolt is already partly open, otherwise the bolt handle would be flush with the rear receiver bridge. The safety lever on the left side of the bolt is on when horizontal, it locks into notches in the cocking piece both when cocked and fired. The safety pivots up to flush with the bolt when it's off.
One thing that will jam the bolt is if the rear guard screw is in too far and protruding into the slot the cocking piece travels in. I'd suggest removing both guard screws along with the trigger guard and see if it frees things up, making sure the safety is off. The only other thing I can of is that since the action is controlled-feed, with the rim sliding up
up under the extractor when chambering, someone might of tried chambering a round directly into chamber and then shoving the bolt closed, which could jam the extractor against the receiver. That would boil down to tapping the bolt open using
Brass or wood against the base of the bolt handle to avoid damaging it. Wouldn't be a bad idea to run a cleaning rod down the barrel and measure it to see if there might be a round in the chamber.
IMHO
 
Thanks for the tips and advice. I definitely want to make sure it's not loaded and check out the chamber. It was stored with .30-40 Krag ammo that was in the original factory boxes, but I'll have to see if I can find out if that is actually what the ammo is and not reloaded 8x50. I will update the thread as I find out more.
 
Edarnold said:
The photos show the bolt is already partly open, otherwise the bolt handle would be flush with the rear receiver bridge.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot. That was the key. The safety lever would not depress until I pushed the bolt forward. I got the action open, and it was unloaded.

Edarnold said:
The safety lever on the left side of the bolt is on when horizontal, it locks into notches in the cocking piece both when cocked and fired. The safety pivots up to flush with the bolt when it's off.
Click to expand...

The weird thing is, the action only opened with the safety lever horizontal and not flush with the bolt. Also, the front trigger seems to release what I presume is the firing mechanism (the thing sticking up behind the bolt) forward when pulled, but only when the safety lever is horizontal. I assume the rear trigger must, therefore, be the set trigger.

rcmodel said:
My advice would be to slug the bore and see if it is 8mm or .30 cal now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. How do I do this?
 
Drive a lead slug, or lead fishing sinker through the barrel and then measure it with a dial caliper or micrometer.

30-40 would measure .308" or thereabouts.

8x50mm rimmed would measure .323".

rc
 
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