Help indentifying a strange cartridge casing......

[MIL-DOT]

An old buddy and I were shooting on a freinds makeshift range out in the boonies a couple weekends ago, and ran across a ton of empty brass casings (we must've scarfed up about 400 9mm cases, all in a 10 sq-ft area.)
Anyway, there were a few odd casings neither of us recognized (this freind is in most areas a much more knowlwdgable and experienced gun guy than me, long-time re-loader, kitchen table gunsmith,etc.)
These casings looked a lot like a .22 magnum, but were a little bigger and longer. The brass was very shiny, so they presumably weren't some ancient , out-of-production surplus stuff.
So, he just sent me an e-mail asking if I'd ask the matrix here (since I reference a lot of info I get here).
Here's his e-mail,verbatum:

"I have been pouring over old books and even went online trying to find just what in the Hell is that cartridge case we found in the field ... nothing even close ! The case measures 38 mm in length , and because of a very heavily crimped mouth the bullet diameter runs between 7.5 and 8 mm , possibly even 7mm ... I got varying results with that crimp . That put it in the .30 cal. range or less . Thought I had a winner with the 28-32 Stevens , but that case is wayyyy longer . It is boxer primed and uses a small primer , the headstamp is what looks to be a 35 or 38 on one side and a 73 on the opposite . So , if you feel like throwing it out there on one of your forums see what the gang thinks it is . Oh yea , I would call it a semi-rimmed ... very thin rim , no extractor marks I could see ... old revolver maybe ?"

As always, and solid info, or even decent guess, are much appreciated. And unfortunately, both of us are low-tech neanderthals, so no pics at the moment.

 

[ridgerunner1965]

it sounds a lot like a 30 carbine,7.63x33. but too long at 38 mm.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Also, to my eye, this looked too narrow to be a .30.

 

[JohnnyFlake]

A few photos are worth thousands of words!

 

[bonza]

Good possibility it's the 7.62x38mmR Nagant chambered in the Russian service revolvers that were so cheaply available in recent years. Unusual cartridge in that the bullet is seated well below the case mouth & the revolver's cylinder moves forward upon firing to seal against gas leakage. Here's a picture of a 7.62 Nagant mil-surp round on the left, with a .32 S&W Long & .22 LR for comparison.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Thanks for the useful response, Bonza, you may have nailed it, I'll forward that info to my buddy. I took a look around and it looks really close, the measurements line up perfectly.
Also, I see that PRVI Partisan curenlty manufactures this stuff, which would explain why the brass we found was so shiny/new. being an obscure revolver round would also explain why we found so few of them, and scattered so widely, rather than concentrated like the semi-auto rounds were.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...-grain-full-metal-jacket-flat-point-box-of-50


edit: I heard back from my bud, who said that 7.62x38mmR Nagant was definitely it. Thanks again,bonza!

 

[berettaprofessor]

This place always amazes me. Obscure cartridge, uncommon revolver, and somebody (Bonza this time) nails it within 2 hours of the original post.

On the flip side, I'm so accustomed to the knowledge base here that occasionally I'm surprised it took so long.

 

[tark]

A Nagant round without question. Loaded to near slingshot velocity, these rounds are capable of stopping a charging bull mouse in its tracks. I think that 100 grain bullet churns up something like 700 FPS. At most. I once shot a two by four with one. Stopped the bullet cold, couldn't even penetrate 1 3/4 inches of wood.

I believe the round won the title of "World's Most Worthless Cartridge" a few years back.

 

[bonza]

"Obscure cartridge, uncommon revolver, and somebody (Bonza this time) nails it within 2 hours of the original post."

I appreciate the comments, but compared to most of the guns I shoot the Nagant is almost mainstream!

 

[Caliper_Mi]

I think that 100 grain bullet churns up something like 700 FPS. At most. I once shot a two by four with one. Stopped the bullet cold, couldn't even penetrate 1 3/4 inches of wood.

I believe the round won the title of "World's Most Worthless Cartridge" a few years back.

I chronographed some rounds out of my Nagant some time back.
While the PPU commercial load ran a lazy 600fps, the Russian surplus clocked in at 940fps. Still nothing stellar, but a big difference.

One has to wonder how the Russians pick their service pistols. Start with the Nagant, then move up to the Tokarev. But, years later take a big step back and switch to the Makarov? I can only imagine the confusion of an officer who served through all three of those.

 

[scallop]

That round was mostly used to "encourage" less than enthusiastic conscripted troops. Also as a base of the neck, back of the head execution shot. Interesting to note it is also the only revolver that can be silenced due to the way the cylinder seals when firing.

 

[tark]

Caliper RWVA, how right you are! It was the PPU ammo that wouldn't pass the 2X4 test. I got a hold of some Russian Surplus the other day and it is noticeably more powerful than the PPU . This round might be useful for dispatching fur bearing critters caught in traps....I can't envision that slow moving bullet tearing up much meat; but it certainly doesn't appear to be much of a self defense round.