HELP! Mac 10?

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hankdatank1362

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Hey guys, quick question....

An acquaintance of mine is selling a MAC 10, or something that looks a lot like it. It does not have the collapsing stock.

It comes in a very nice wooden case with 4 magazines. The barrel in threaded. It comes with what looks like maybe a screw-on silencer (a long, cylindrical tube with a heat shield around it).

It fires from open bolt (he did a dry fire in front of me)

The guy says he's never shot it, but he heard a rumor that if it fired from an open bolt, it was fully automatic.

I only got a fleeting glimpse of it, but I ddin't see any kind of selector switch or anything (honestly, I wouldn't have known where to look until I saw detailed pictures of a Mac 10 on the internet)

Here's the page I used for comparison http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg22-e.htm

Is there any way I can tell what it is without actually screwing on what might be a silencer and taking what might be a fully-auto weapon down to the range? He's not the kind of guy that I really want to ask if I can shoot it before I buy it.

But if its legal for me to own (semi auto, fake silencer, don't feel the need to go through all the BATFE NFA hassle), how much should I give for it?
 
It fires from open bolt (he did a dry fire in front of me)
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That is enough to make it trouble I'm afraid if it actually does fire from open bolt.

It doesn't make it fully automatic necessarily but it does make it a machine gun in the eyes of the ATF.

If it wasn't placed in the NFA registry in '86, it's too late.
Even if it was a semi only, the fact that it fired from open bolt means it should have been put in NFA when that mess in '86 came about.

My advice, run.
 
Not true. There are a whole bunch of MACs that are semi and fire from an open bolt. But that too was outlawed in the early 90s because it was too easy to convert over.
 
Not true
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What's not true? Firearms that fire from open bolt are considered machine guns, that's the part that is true, regardless of the date that decision was made or whether the gun actually fires full auto.

I'm pretty sure the ruling on open bolts was made even before the '86 mess.

If there was grandfathering you'd have to show that the gun was made before the ruling which I think was in like '81 or '82 and I believe it was part of the same batch that killed the "drop in auto sears" for AR 15s.
 
I thought that's what I said, that if they were made before that date they might be grandfathered. After that they are considered machine guns so you'd need to be able to prove date of manufacture.

I'm not sure which part of that you keep saying is wrong.
 
So it's an NFA weapon even if it fires semi auto from an open bolt?


That sux!!!

How can I tell if the silencer is real or just a dummy? (without shooting the weapon)
 
The part about having to be in the NFA registry.
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If they were made after the '82 ban date they DO because after that date they were no longer Title 1 firearms, but machineguns, whether they fired semi or not.

If before, I am sure they are grandfathered since they are being sold and are apparantly highly prized!

I had no idea they brought that much.
 
So it's an NFA weapon even if it fires semi auto from an open bolt?
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If it was made after that date, sometime in 1982. June maybe? I can't remember.

You'd need proof of the maufacture date for it to be OK.

Edit: Yes, it was June 1982.
 
Its not a machine gun. Not by defination or function. The RDIAS is different because it makes a unaltered receiver capable of full auto. Which is why its a registered part. Notice on the auctions they arent in the Class3/Title2 section. You dont register semi guns as MGs in the NFA registry. Regardless of ANY date. Pretty much every semi gun that has a FA version had some similar problem. With the UZI Model A, it was becase the bolt had a fully supported face. The ATF just stops production. Nothing becomes illegal or a a NFA item.
 
If you just want a semi auto Mac get a new one. They are all throughout the Shotgun News like fleas for under $300. If you want a full auto one, add another 0.
 
They are all throughout the Shotgun News like fleas for under $300. If you want a full auto one, add another 0.
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And I honestly don't know why anyone would. There are better things to spend your money on, IMO. Like a .50. Or a precision .308.

I just can't see spending that kind of coin on what truly is a junk gun, just because it is a registereed MG. The last semi mac I played with left a welt between my eyes when the bolt handle snapped off.

If you want class III, don't go that cheap. Up the budget to $7 or $8K and get an AC556.
 
Its not a machine gun. Not by defination or function. The RDIAS is different because it makes a unaltered receiver capable of full auto. Which is why its a registered part. Notice on the auctions they arent in the Class3/Title2 section.
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OK, I will assume you are right since you collect the things, but I can't find it written down either way anywhere.

I am old enough to remember when ATF threw a fit about firing from open bolt because they were too easy to convert.

I thought some manufacturers kept making them but I guess not since they are so collectable.

Thanks for the discussion!
 
Yeah, the whole process is pretty confusing to most. I had to learn it all a few years back when I started collecting Title2 firearms. Oh and MachIV, the selector makes a pretty huge difference. I hate shooting my semi MACs. I agree. But I paid $1,100 for my FA MAC (M11-9) about 4 years ago, and its already worth over $3,000. That aint workin, thats the way you do it. Money for nuthin.
 
The heat shield you are describing is typical for fake suppressors. If you look inside the tube it will be all open on the inside or look like a piece of pipe. If its a real suppressor it will have baffles inside, which you should be able to see.

Yes, open bolt semi-autos are rare and somewhat collectable. Frankly, you would be better off spending your money on a more desireable weapon that you can actually enjoy. Semi Macs are NO fun to shoot at all.

bama
 
I just can't see spending that kind of coin on what truly is a junk gun, just because it is a registereed MG.
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While I admit that I don't shoot mine that much anymore since I have others that are nicer, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. MACs are cheaply made, it's true, but I don't see how anybody with a pulse could shoot a full-auto MAC and not enjoy it more than any .50 rifle or precision .308. Oh well, to each their own.
 
"And I honestly don't know why anyone would. There are better things to spend your money on, IMO. Like a .50. Or a precision .308."

That's an ANTI-GUNNER argument if I ever heard one! "What do you need that for? It's only made for killing people!

Come on! I don't see why anyone would want to own a .50, but you don't hear me berating people because they want to. That they want to is a good enough reason for me.
 
I just can't see spending that kind of coin on what truly is a junk gun, just because it is a registereed MG.
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Mine is one of the "cheap" SWD M11/9mm's. It was cheap too, I paid $225 for it new. At this point, its got well over 20,000 rounds through it and its still going strong. The first upper did succumb to about 2000 rounds of very hot SMG 9mm, but the replacement tube was $60, and its been fine for the last 18 years or so.

The MAC SMG's are fun guns, and with good mags, very reliable. They are more accurate than most give them credit, and if you understand the technique, very easy to shoot well with. I think the real problem here is, misinformation. They tend to be intimidating to those who have little experience with SMG's, and you cant base your opinion on one or two mags from a gun you most likely, dont know how to shoot. The technique is the same for most all SMG's, and shoulder fired full autos, and easily learned, easy enough, my kids learned to shoot my MP5 at the age of 5. It took one 30 round mag to teach them. What has always amazed me is, the number of experienced "combat vets" who have know idea how to shoot one when you place it in their hands.


As for the open bolt "semi's". Its always been my understanding, as others have stated, that if the ATF deemed them a no-no, then the maker had to stop making them or change the design, and all previous guns, which were legal when they were sold, were grandfathered. Somethings, like the Street Sweepers, were deemed DD's, and you were supposed to register them. I dont believe this was the case with the open bolt guns though.
 
just pull and hold the tigger and work the bolt all the way back like it firing if it doesn't catch it full and if it does it semi i would say its a old open bolt semi i have seen a few of them years ago all the new one are close bolt $300 is a good price for one of them around here back in the 90's i havent seen one in years
 
That's an ANTI-GUNNER argument if I ever heard one! "What do you need that for? It's only made for killing people!
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When did I post anything remotely resembling what you have quoted me as saying? I said the Ingrams/Cobrays are POS guns and I don't know why anyone would want to spend $3-$4K on one just becasue it is a registered MG. Their purpose is the same as that of a G-18 or Beretta 93R, but the design was poorly executed.

Never said no one should have a MAC. Just can't understand the desire.

Stick around awhile longer and you'll learn where I stand on gun rights. You're statement is severely misplaced.
 
Older Mac

All the early Macs were open bolt guns, both selective fire and semi only. Without going into details, BATF frowns most strongly on open bolt guns. Although technically legal semi autos, open bolt (semi) guns are no longer made and sold, due to BATF pressure. Since they are considered "easy to convert", and since language in BATF regs uses "easily convertable" as a definition of "bad" guns, the makers of open bolt semis found it easier to redesign their products to closed bolt operation than constantly defend themselves against the BATF.

Open bolt guns are legal handguns under Federal law. States may have something against them, check your state laws carefully. As an aside, open bolt guns require a different shooting technique than regular guns. The mass of the bolt going forward to fire tends to throw off the aim until you compensate for it. Not quite such a big deal with a full auto, but with a semi it can make a difference.

Not sure what they are going for today, but a few years ago, legal open bolt semis were around $850, because they are no longer made (rare), while the identical gun new made (closed bolt) was about $250. The guns were often sold with a case, spare mags, and either a slotted barrel extension, or a dummy silencer barrel extension. All within current US laws. Except for a state "assault weapons" law, Mac 10s (and Cobrays, and Tec 9s) are just large awkward handguns, and handgun laws apply.
 
Their purpose is the same as that of a G-18 or Beretta 93R, but the design was poorly executed.
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They are in a different class than the Glock and Beretta, both of which were designed first as a pistol. The MAC's are SMG's with a different role. Trying to make the MAC a pistol was a mistake, but like anything else that the buying public craves, someone will make.


Just curious, but how much experience do you have with MAC's of any generation and what issues did you have with them?

Every MAC I've ever shot has always worked well(with good mags) and was as accurate as any other open bolt SMG. I do think they fall in the special purpose role, instead of being a general purpose SMG, but they are no lightweight in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot one.
 
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