Help me choose a .22 suppressor

[MrM4]

Ive played with alot of 22 cans, and in my experance everyone has their favorites. The Alpine is a OK can but I definatly wouldnt put it at the top of the list. Tacsol has a titanium can the same size that is rated for 5.7 that is quiter for about the same price maybe a bit higher.

I have zero complaints about the Sparrow. If you want to talk about poor sounding cans I have come to find over time that YHM stuff is at the top of the list and surefire is not far behind in the .22 department. Shooting Surefires .22 can next to a Thompson XL and a OutbackII the surefire is a paper weight. There are people who will defend their over priced surefire .22 cans all day long, I wont fight over it, I am just going by what my ears told me. I suggest people to try them side by side with other cans the noise level will speak for itself.

Meter readings only account for so much, the tone of the shot is often is very differant, more so in rifle cans than pistol or .22 in my experance. Tone of the shot is something that I cant really explain other then the "ringyness" of the sound, but it does affect what people think about how well a can works judging but customer demos.

I will try and reach Mac Bros, I keep hearing good things about their cans and if their stuff is of good quality and preformance Id be happy to carry some of it.

 

[Captains1911]

Sounds like you're all set then. Do you have your sparrow on order?

I do, submitted last week. When I pick it up this fall I'll compare it side by side to my gemtech OBII and a few others friends own.

 

[Orkan]

I will try and reach Mac Bros, I keep hearing good things about their cans and if their stuff is of good quality and preformance Id be happy to carry some of it.

What shop you operate out of MrM4?

 

[The Grand Baboon]

I'd give it some time and wait for the SWR Spectre 2. It looks as if it's going to be a real neat can.

 

[Gato Montés]

Apparently I have a LOT more reading to do as I'm feeling a tad bit overwhelmed right now.

Tis a shame one can't actually go and experience first hand all the different offerings out there (well, I can't at least). I'll spend a month over at silencertalk and hopefully that will get me a better foundation on what I want.

When's the new Spectre coming out?

 

[Orkan]

I'll spend a month over at silencertalk and hopefully that will get me a better foundation on what I want.

Don't count on it. One of my first suppressors was a YHM Mite based on glowing recommendations everywhere including there. It's the loudest crappiest 22LR can I own.

You really need to meet up with people. Try to coordinate a meet somewhere that lots of guys can show up and bring their toys. Then you can hear a few side by side on the same host weapon and REALLY make an informed decision. Everywhere on the web, you'll find someone talking up every single make and model suppressor out there, no matter how crappy. Pride of ownership with suppressors is ridiculous... and the info so skewed because of people selling them not really caring.

As MrM4 said, meter results are USELESS. The guy claiming that the sparrow meters quieter than the alpine may be true, but I can tell you my first hand indoor experience will trump any metering result I ever see. I don't care who runs the test or what kind of meter is used. Thus far, the alpine and mack bros cans are the quietest non-integral suppressors I've ever heard... and I know quiet suppressors. My integrally suppressed 77/22 is the quietest I've ever heard. Tactical Operations green hornet is the same thing. A mouse fart is louder than that thing firing with subs.

So make it a priority to go hear various suppressors on the same host gun. Changing hosts will change the sound signature. By doing this, you'll get first hand experience that cannot be replaced by anything people tell you online. It's the only thing that will stop you from being misled by glory hounds on the internet.

 

[MrM4]

I have been thinking about setting up a local event to let people listen to cans side by side with the same host and same ammo. Maybe take 3 or 4 new threaded rugers and bring out the shop demo cans in addition to what ever the public wanted to bring and make an afternoon out of shooting them side by side. Myself and a few other guys have been talking about doing the same with 30 cal cans aswell.

Orkan, my shop is over by Wall. We do Class 3 sales and custom manufacture NFA items. We also make a high volume 1.5in OD FA rated .22 take down suppressor, no dbs numbers on it at this point. We have not had anyone test 1 out with a meter yet.

I still need to get ahold of mack bros and see what we might be able to set up with them.

 

[wally]

Sound meters don't lie, i'll trust them over an Internet poster's perception

Absolutely. The "golden ears" of audio will eventually find their way to suppressors with all kinds of subjective "expertise" espousing "oxygen-free" copper baffles

I can tell you my first hand indoor experience will trump any metering result I ever see.

Indoors, where you stand relative to the muzzle will have an enormous effect on what you hear.

 

[Orkan]

Indoors, where you stand relative to the muzzle will have an enormous effect on what you hear.

Next you'll tell me that wearing hearing protection will reduce the loudness of sound.

My world is just crashing down all around me!

 

[MrM4]

lol

 

[wally]

Next you'll tell me that wearing hearing protection will reduce the loudness of sound.

Guess you've never heard about standing waves, nodes, and anti-nodes.

Valid testing is done in an anechoic chamber or outdoors in an open area as a reasonable approximation.

This is a potential problem with the Silerenco tests/video although it appears they do seem to have tried to keep the positions of the muzzle and microphone the same.

At the end of the day 3db is not worth arguing about.

 

[MrM4]

Agreed 3 db is not a big deal in my mind when talking about general uses, there are many good quality cans out there. How ever there are millions of post about people wanting the best, which I understand however I dont find it worth fighting over.

 

[wacki]

Anyone got a link for Mack Bros?

 

[wally]

With rimfire ammo how often does one have to clean a suppressor?

The manual that came with my Sparrow recommends cleaning it after about every 1000 rounds, This is 2-3 outings for me so ease of cleaning was a very high priority. I shot 400 rounds through it yesterday so I don't see how the "first round pop" is significant.

Wonderful fun shooting steel plates without needing hearing protection. When I missed and put one above the plate into the dirt (need to hit the top 1/3rd or they don't fall with a 22) it really did sound like the pfft... in the movies I've shot pellet rifles that were louder.

 

[wacki]

Orkan, it sounds like your ears are just hyper sensitive to certain frequencies. I'd stick with that argument. It's a very valid argument there can be a 80db sensitivity change for the human ear between 10 and 5 kHz.

Arguing that sound metering is useless is not productive.

Metering dB @ x hertz is very productive

Metering dB only measures the pressure wave.

 

[wally]

Arguing that sound metering is useless is not productive.

Metering dB @ x hertz is very productive

Metering dB only measures the pressure wave.

Absolutely.

The pressure wave is the physics of what makes the noise, when you measure across a reduced (or weighted) bandwidth you are using some model of human hearing to try and make the numbers match "perceptions" of an average from a large number of listeners -- A-weighting, etc.

This is why unless they specify the bandwidth and weighting, if any, maker A's db readings are not strictly comparable to maker B's db readings even ignoring the room acoustics issues (are their any firearms rated anechoic chambers?). The graphs posted don't seem to specify the measurement bandwidth or weighting, if any.


Outdoor testing in a large open area would be the best practical method but has all kinds of instrumentation power supply issues and possible environmental noise contamination.

No matter how good the suppressor how "loud" it sounds will vary a good bit depending on where you shoot it and where you are standing relative the muzzle.

I'm thrilled with my Sparrow, not so much with my Gemtech 7.62 as the supersonic crack is still more than enough to require hearing protection in my shooting environment -- about as loud as a .22 rifle. Its the people at the adjacent shooting stations that get the most benefits from my using it When I whipped it out, everyone on the line wanted to stop shooting remove their muffs and hear it. I don't think anyone was really all that impressed. But the QD mount is really cool!

 

[Gato Montés]

Been doing my reading and I really like the design of the Spectre II.

I also realized that a lot of you who play with suppressors have an ultrasonic cleaner, so along with a suppressor I think I'll pick one of those up as well. Can anyone recommend one in the $100 - $200 range?

 

[husbandofaromanian]

My old suppressor is a Tac-65. Anybody know how the Tac-65 compares to modern designs?

 

[wacki]

I also realized that a lot of you who play with suppressors have an ultrasonic cleaner, so along with a suppressor I think I'll pick one of those up as well. Can anyone recommend one in the $100 - $200 range?

I bought $99 Chicago ultrsonic from Harbor freight. It's just a debadged version of the lyman or hornady cleaner. I forget which company slaps their label on it and charges you extra.

 

[wacki]

The pressure wave is the physics of what makes the noise, when you measure across a reduced (or weighted) bandwidth you are using some model of human hearing to try and make the numbers match "perceptions" of an average from a large number of listeners -- A-weighting, etc.

Anyone know the algorithm for A-weighted? Google doesn't seem to provide any hits.

 

[wally]

Anyone know the algorithm for A-weighted?

Here is a starting point with a graph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU-R_468_noise_weighting

Its not really an algorithm its basically a transfer function that defines the bandpass in front of the measuring instrument.

 

[Orkan]

Orkan, it sounds like your ears are just hyper sensitive to certain frequencies. I'd stick with that argument. It's a very valid argument there can be a 80db sensitivity change for the human ear between 10 and 5 kHz. Arguing that sound metering is useless is not productive.

I can get behind that.

Sound metering is akin to comparing glass clarity in optics. The individual end user's experience is the only thing that truly matters. That is why I'm a bit harsh toward people that only own a couple suppressors and try to talk as an authority about metered results.

Nothing, and I mean nothing is as important as first hand experience with a product. (ANY product)

 

[thorazine]

I got a super deal on a coastal passport that I couldn't pass up.

It's not the quietest twenty two suppressor but easily hearing safe dry with pistol or rifle.


If you can find one for super cheap I wouldn't discredit it as an option.

 

[Gato Montés]

Thanks to all who replied here, I learned a lot just from this thread.

So I've been doing my research and settled on a SS 22Sparrow for my first can. Honestly, I could have gone with the Sparrow OR the Spectre II, but the shop had the Sparrow in stock for a decent price so I went with that. Is the Sparrow the end all be all of .22 cans? No, but from what I've read and the features it offers it definitely seems a GOOD choice.

So begins my long wait to play with my new toy. Seems kinda unfair; dropping $600 total only to wait upwards of 6 months to get it. Oh well, gives me some time to get my barrels threaded. Thanks again all!

 

[rjrivero]

Congrats. You'll like the Sparrow.