Help Me Choose First Revolver!

[kyoung05]

Hey, wanted to start off by saying hello to all in this forum. I've been browsing it for a while trying to get as much info. as I could concerning my first revolver purchase. I just got into firearms VERY recently, last summer actually, and my only handgun at the time is a Springfield 1911A1. I also own a Ruger 10/22 but I am trying to sell it if you guys have been checking the for-sale forums at all. Anyways, there is a local gun shop that I've been to a few times to look at their selection of used revolvers. My budget at this point is around $300-$350, so most new revolvers are out of my budget. Let me rephrase that, most new revolvers that I'd WANT to own are out of my budget. (Sure I could get a Taurus or Rossi or something, but why??? ) By the way I live in CA, and FFL transfers run about $60 at least, so online purchases and anything short of PPT are out of the question.


Ok, so here is my situation. My local gun shop (River City Gun Exchange, if anyone is wondering) has a few that have sparked my interest. First, there is a S&W M&P 4" pencil barrel, dating to approximately 1909-1915. There is some holster wear in the usual places, but the finish overall is pretty good, and the checkered walnut stocks w/ medallions are also in pretty good shape. I checked it out briefly using some of Jim March's tips, and there is ever-so-slight front to back cylinder play (actually, all of the used revolvers I checked out had this), as well as a smidge of side to side play. Cylinder/barrel gap from what I could tell was acceptable, but if I decide to get it I'll definitely bring a set of feeler gauges. The price on this one is $249, and since its a consignment peice, no bargaining on the price.



Next on the list is a Ruger Security Six in stainless with rubber Pachmayer grips (I acutally prefer the walnut, so I'd have to pick up a set later). It has a 6" barrel, again minor cylinder play, and looking at the bore there are some scratches toward the cylinder end. Is this normal? I looked at my 1911 with over 1000 rounds, and there aren't any such scratches. Is this something that is common for revolvers? There are a couple of minor scratches here and there on the gun itself, but nothing major that I noticed. Dated to around 1970 or so. The price on this one is $299, again, non-negotiable.



There was also a S&W 36 .38 with what I think was a 3" barrel, blued, wood grips. Did not have a chance to handle this one at all, but the finish looked to be good. Price on this was $299, again non-negotiable.



Last but not least they have the Ruger GP100 6" blued w/ short underlug on sale for $339, new in box.


They also have a Colt Trooper 4" .357 for $329.99, but I think I'd rather have one of the other guns.


Sure I could look elsewhere, but that would take more time and I am looking for something in the near future. Plus, I figure that shop is as good as any place to start. So, the concerns I had with both S&W's were that I am told they are not rated for +p ammo, so that pretty much rules out their use as a defensive handgun (since the .45acp I already have would serve that purpose better). Also, while I liked the classic look of them I was not too fond of the pencil barrel on the M&P, and worried about maintainence in the future. The Security Six seemed pretty solid, and with the exception of the rubber grips, was very aesthetically pleasing, to me anyways. I've read nothing but good reviews about these and am sure it would make a fine gun. Now, the GP100 seems like a great deal at $339 NIB, and the half-underlug I hear definitely helps in the balance of the gun. Also, the two Rugers are .357, and strong ones at that, versus the S&W's which are rated for standard pressure .38's only. Granted, due to the cost of ammo I'd probably be shooting .38's most of the time anyways, but it would be nice to shoot the occasional stronger loads. The only experience I've had with wheelguns thus far has been a .357 4" Rossi, which I liked, but I hear they go out of time in rapid DA fire which is not something I want to deal with. Also, I tried shooting a M60 with both .38's and .357's, and while recoil was stout, it was manageable. Now, my question really is what do you guys think would be the best all-around gun? By this I mean, just shooting at the range, since in CA CCW is not really an option , so they won't have to be carried, but might be shot for somewhat long periods of time. I'm leaning towards the Rugers since they seem to be a good balance of strength, reliability, price, and accuracy (albeit, with a lousier DA trigger in comparison to S&W's I hear). However, the S&W's would be slicker and have a smoother action, and possibly more reliable (?). Also, that M&P felt GREAT in my hand. If any of you guys own one or more of these, please chime in and let me know what you think. Oh, and BTW, I might be trading my 10/22 for a SAA clone (Hawes) in .357, so even if I got a .38 only gun, I guess I could still shoot .357's in that. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Also, if you think those prices are no good, let me know too!

 

[Radagast]

I'm not a fan of, nor do I have experience with colts.

My preference would be the M&P if doing range shooting, but you would be smarter to hold out for a model 14 or 15 combat masterpiece with adjustable sights.

The Ruger, if equiped with fixed sights I would pass on, if it has adjustables may be the pick of the bunch. The semi rubber grip will help with recoil, the longer barrel means a better sight radius and .357 magnums are fun to shoot.

I've owned model 60, 640 and 66s, I've shot the SP101, model 28s, and I have a 627PC on order and a new model 66 on order. I like S&W revolvers.

The model 36 I would pass on. Consistent accuracy is hard to come by with a short sight radius and heavy trigger pull.

If the gun is going to serve time as a home defence gun, probably the M&P.

 

[patentnonsense]

I think you can get more "bang for your buck" than what you quoted.

If you know how to check for function, get one of the S&W police models - there were literally millions of Model 10s made, for instance. You'll find them in the classified ads, at gun shows, maybe at garage sales if you're away from the cities. Go to a gun buyback, if they have them in Kali, with a $100 bill, and see what you get offered.

I'd say start with .38 - it's more comfortable to shoot thousands of rounds through than 357, cheaper ammo, cheaper guns, less likely to damage your hearing if you have to use it suddenly, and able to do nearly everything a 357 will (except for some hunting needs).

And shop more gun stores - it's a lot of fun! If you're ready to buy take your cash with you, and tell them you're looking for a used Smith in .38 - lots of gun shop people are very helpful to newbies on a budget. (Doesn't sound like yours is though.) If they don't deal in what you're looking for some of them will tell you how to find it.

And the internet and gun-trader ads can help you get sighted in on price - figure on paying 20% more locally, but at least the national prices will give you some idea.

I'm fairly new myself, so don't over-credit my expertise - but that's what I'd do if I was starting. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Majic]

Since this is a range gun I would say rule out the Smith's as the others are more versatile. The M10 while being quite capable is fix sighted. Being a new shooter you will learn an adjustable sighted revolver allows flexibility in loads. The M60 is a J-frame which is smaller, but concealment is not what you are after. The larger revolvers will be more comfortable to shoot.
The Security Six balances better than the GP series to me, but that's something for you to personaly decide. Both will do exactly what you want.
The scratches in the bore may be from someone using a stainless steel bore brush. Stay away from them like it has the plague. The exterior scratches can probably be polished off with a little elbow grease using very fine (0000) steel wool and a polishing compound.
If the Colt Trooper is a MkIII then don't underestimate it. It also is a fine revolver with the strength similar to the Rugers. The older Troopers had better triggers, but more complex actions. For the price you quoted I will rule out it being a MkV Trooper. Just different strokes for different folks. Die hard Smith fans will overlook it, but any revolver shooter will reconize it's qualities. It is more difficult to have repaired just anywhere though compared to a S&W.

 

[MrMurphy]

A 4" rubber gripped Security Six was my first pistol. My father, devious man that he is gave it to me on my 20th birthday, so I couldn't really "own" it for another year (still sat in my room though!).

The Security-Six was replaced by the GP100, but both are excellent solid-shooting wheelguns. The 6" model is purely a range piece or hunting gun, I prefer 3" or 4" barrels on all my full size wheelguns. (Ever tried hiding a 6"? I'm no Dirty Harry).

Also check out the Taurus Trackers in new guns. They're decent, and sometimes you can find a deal.

 

[Thirties]

S&W M&P 4" pencil barrel, dating to approximately 1909-1915 for $249

Great gun, but you can buy newer S&W model 10s (built from the 50s on) for that money or less. You may even be able to find a model 14 or 15 as someone said, in the high $200s. If you plan to shoot the gun, I'd stay away from such an oldie, unless the price was very low. Steel technology has got much better since then.

Here's a photo of my model 10 and my model 15. I paid $225 and $275 respectively.

I love my Smith thirty-eights, I really love these fine revolvers.

http://www.jellison.50megs.com/images/two_sw_38s.jpg

My first revolver, just last year, was a Colt .38 special Police Positive from 1922. Then I bought my second (SW m10), and my third (SW m15) pictured above. My fourth revolver is a model 1895 Russian Nagant which I really enjoy (but I reload, otherwise forget this one). That lead me to recently trade the old Colt for a new Ruger Single Six .32H&R magnum. So now I've got two .38s and two .32s. I'm a happy camper.

Photo of the old Colt...

http://www.jellison.50megs.com/images/coltppspecial.jpeg

 

[Josey]

IF the Colt is a Trooper MKIII, buy it. The others are too high and that S&W Model 10/M&P is collectible. It would not be a shooter. The Ruger sounds like it may have a cracked forcing cone or a botched ream job to improve the forcing cone angle. Avoid it. You can find NIB S&Ws for the prices that shop is asking. Shop around.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Sir and Welcome Aboard-

You mentioned several excellent choices for a first
revolver; but FWIW (and if the ultimate decision
were mine), I would look strongly at the Ruger
Security-Six. These guns are excellent revolvers,
and are often over looked on gun shelves by Mr.
John Q. Citizen. And most of the time they
are a great value for your money!

If I needed a good .357 magnum right now, I
wouldn't hesitate owning the Ruger Security-Six.
And by the way, I was just searching e-bay under
"handgun grips", and came up with a brand new
set of factory original (wooden panels) that fits
the square butt Security-Six. Kind'a looks like
they were removed from a NIB revolver, and
never used? Sorry, I don't recollect the price;
but they were very inexpensive!

E-bay auction item # 3663229390, with an opening price of $7.99

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Wedge]

I would probably buy the GP-100 if those are the only choices that you have. I also would not sell the 10/22, you will end up wanting it back at some point.

 

[kyoung05]

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys.


Ala Dan - Someone mentioned earlier that the scratches in the barrel of the Security Six could be a result of a cracked forcing cone or bad gunsmithing. What is the likelihood of that? Are there other things to look for in the barrel to see if it is otherwise ok?


Josey mentioned that if the Colt is an MKIII, to get it. Are they pretty sturdy? The frame looked pretty "beefy", would it be at all comprable to an N-Frame? Also, how would I know if it's an MKIII or some other model? Do I have to be familiar with the serial numbers? Or will it be stamped on the barrel?


I am actually wanting an N-frame .357, eg. M27 or M28, what is the chance that I could get either one of these in my budget? Thanks again.

 

[Majic]

You would need to clean the forcing cone and inspect it with a magnifying glass for cracks. If the scratches are up in the barrel beyond the leade I still think a ss bore brush was used.

The Colt will have the MkIII stamped on the barrel. If there is no MkIII or MkV stamped on the barrel then it is the original Trooper with an action exactly like that of a Python. The Mark versions had improved actions.

There is a M28 in your price range on GunsAmerica. It does have some cosmetic issues as someone has engraved initials on it. The M28 may pop up from time to time in that range, but I doubt if you will find a M27 for that price these days. The price of the M28s have been on the rise lately.

 

[greyhound]

If it helps, in Nov 2002 I paid $345 for my 4" S&W 64 (police trade) and I love this gun.

Yes, I know $345 is way high, but I live in MD and as a newbie was not gonna buy off the internet.

The 64 is the stainless version of the M&P Model 10, and is rated for +P.

 

[kyoung05]

Ok, I just called the shop to ask about the Colt Trooper 4", and they said it's an MKIII, and has some holster wear as it was a police officer's gun. (In fact, they say it has PPD stamped into it.) When I asked about how tight it was, he said it had "been shot quite a bit", which I take to mean it's pretty loose? Anyways, looks like the only ones there worth looking now are the NIB GP100 for $339, or the Stainless Security Six for $299, which might have a damaged forcing cone . If it turns out that the barrel was just cleaned with a steel brush, is it worth buying? I am sort of hoping that the Colt isn't as loose as they say. After all, police guns are carried a lot, shot a little, right? Well, it also may be time to look elsewhere.

 

[D_Burchfield]

Welcome kyoung05,

In one post you mentioned that your real preference is for a N-Frame S&W. FWIW, I just recently purchased my first revolver which is a Model 28-2. That model was manufactured from early 1973 until about 1979. I really like this gun. For one thing it has adjustable rear sights so it will adapt to different loads(+P, +P+, Magnum) It is very sturdy and reliable. I did change the grips to Hogue Combats because they help reduce the recoil when shooting for extended periods. The 28-2 is a no frills revolver that can take all the shooting you can. They can be had for around $275-300 in 95-98% condition grade. Less if you don't mind a little holster wear or cosmetic imperfections. Don't rush into a purchase if you have time to look around a little more. I found mine for less than $250. Nothing against Rugers or Colts. They are reputable guns. But give yourself a chance to fondle a N-Frame before you make a commitment.

Best and good shooting,

Doug

 

[JShirley]

Don't listen to Doug.

If that Model 36 is indeed a 3" barrel, I would get that. Of course, I tend to think of pistols in carry terms.

For range queens or hunting use, an N frame is indeed the way to go.

John

 

[Roger Williams]

GO GET THAT GP100!!!!!!

Last but not least they have the Ruger GP100 6" blued w/ short underlug on sale for $339, new in box.

HOLY CRAP! That's one of my dream guns! I "settled" for a 4" stainless GP100 (which is a great gun by the way) because my wife liked it.... but I REALLY wanted a blued 6 incher. I looked everywhere and the blued 6" just don't exist around here.

My God man... run, don't walk!

But seriously, if that sucker was in my neck of the woods, it'd be mine! I really think you would enjoy it! The GP100 is known for eagerly shooting the most powerful full-house .357 loads. (I have read that high performance ammo manufacturers use them as test guns for high power ammo!) Also the GP100 has a rep for being crazy-accurate! I think it would be even better with a 6" bbl... Really, that is the best deal you mentioned by far, and one I would like to make myself!

 

[Ala Dan]

Price wise, you won't beat the Ruger GP-100. I
have seen these with price tags much higher.
I even considered one of these before I finally
settled on my 6" Smith & Wesson L-frame 686.

But, if you really have the time and are looking
towards a Smith; take Doug's advice and
search for the best deal. Sometimes police trade
ins are an excellent value. And FWIW, the S&W
model 28-2 is an outstanding firearm; just not
as finely finished as a 27-2. I bought a USED 6"
gem mint, 98 per center 28-2 in 2001 for $270.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Black Majik]

hey Kyoung.

Where in California are you located? That Ruger GP100 for $339 is an awesome deal here in California. I've seen 6" full lug GP100's for $419 here in Southern California.

Definitely snatch up the GP100, that would be my suggestion. They will keep going and will live past you and your grandkids with proper care.

Also, be sure not to rush into a purchase. Be patient, a deal will come your way. It also gives you time to save up more money to buy something you really want.

Good luck in your search.

 

[kyoung05]

Hey thanks for the advice. I am actually located in Sacramento. The full underlug ones go for around $450 here also, but I think it's just that Ruger stopped making the half-ungerlug ones, and they must not be as popular so the shop is clearing them out. I asked how long the sale would be on for, and they said until they sold out, however long that is. As for waiting for a nice N-frame to come my way, that'd be great if I wasn't so impatient. I called a couple of other stores near me and they didn't seem to have any either. One shop "just" sold their only M28 :banghead: I asked how much they usually go for, and he told me anywhere from $300 up to $700 , so I'm guessing he either didn't want to tell me over the phone, or there are actually people out there paying $700 for an M28 when they could have had an M27 and change. Since this is my first revolver, I'm trying not to be too picky as I'm sure there will be more to come later. Who knows, I may even sell my 1911 later on for a wheelgun. I just want something to shoot in the meantime, so I'll try to hold out for a little bit longer, but unless some miracle brings an M28 into my neck of the woods for around $300, I'm going to take a long hard look at that GP100 or that Colt Trooper MKIII.

 

[MrMurphy]

Black Majik, check out Fowler's Gun Room off the 22 East in Tustin (can't remember the exit) they usually have excellent prices, as does the Armory of Orange next door for milsurp stuff (assuming it's still open) I bought my first rifle (Lee-Enfield No.4Mk1) from Fowlers. They've got everything from high grade skeet guns to cheapo stuff, Lugers and Mauser Broomhandles to Glocks.

 

[kyoung05]

Ok, it's been a while since I started this thread and I figured I owed you guys an update. Well, shortly after considering a wheelgun, and looking at the ones listed (eg. colt trooper, M&P, etc) I decided to pass on the used ones and old ones either because they were too fragile to shoot +p loads, or in the case of the Security Six, had excessive wear and scratches in the bore. I wanted a shooter, not a collectible. Anyways, I developed a hankering for SA revolvers, and went with a Single Six. AWESOME gun, but kind of like a gift and a curse, turns out its a pretty rare S-4 model (single cylinder only, star mark underneath frame) and more of a collectible. With the advice of some of the guys on Rugerforum.com, I decided to list it for sale in Red Eagle News Exchange, because again, I want something I can shoot.

I then began looking for something in either .44mag or .45colt, the Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter and Bisley Hunter to be exact. Turns out I have to order them since my shop doesn't stock them and that will take longer than I cared to wait. I also wanted the Acusport Bisley in .45colt but no luck there either (I am on the waiting list for one, but who knows how that'll go). I also wanted to start reloading so I could make the most out of the calibers I shoot, eg. .45colt is a pretty versatile caliber ranging from cowboy loads to barn-burning magnum levels. Anyways, I was in the store today hoping to find a deal on a SA revolver, hopefully a Blackhawk or something, but no luck. They did have a beautiful stainless Vaquero with ivory grips in .45colt, but not exactly what I was looking for. (I think adj. sites will be easier to shoot, maybe fixed sights will come later) To make a long story short, I bought the GP-100 6" blued w/ half lug, which was still on sale for $339. I tried to bargain down the price, but they said they couldn't go any lower, and since I thought it was an ok price anyways, decided to get it. I'll start reloading .357 and .38's, and plan on getting something else next month. (I live in CA, where the gov't thinks you should only buy 1 gun every 30 days..... bunch of Nazi's) Hopefully I'll have a .45colt or .44mag sometime in the near future, and a new single six that I can actually shoot without having to worry.

I am HOOKED on revolvers now, both DA and SA. They've got a 29-2 in their case that I've been eyeing also....maybe I'll get that next since they're no longer on the Commi...i mean Cali DOJ "list". At this rate, I don't think I'll ever buy a semi-auto ever again...wait...unless I can find a series 70

Anyways, thanks for all of the advice you guys have given. I certainly have much more to learn, and you guys definitely have more info. I'd like to "sap" out of ya! I'll try to post some pics of the GP-100 when I pick it up...on...4/20. (yea yea...I know 420)

 

[Black Majik]

kyoung, congrats on the GP100. I'm sure you'll love that gun. Those things are bullet proof and stong as hell!

As for that 29-2 that you're eyeing. Those things are TOO much fun to shoot. My buddy had one given to him by his dad. Deep blue finish 6", barely shot. He's only shot it twice (I had to drag him to the range twice), now he's in love with it. He's had it for 3 yrs, shot it twice within the past 2 months. If only I can convince him that I'll make better use of that gun.

I know I know... gettin' ya ready for that .44mag. Seriously, if its in good condition, still there and affordable to you, grab that M29-2. *drool*



MrMurphy - Thanks for the heads up on Fowlers. I actually live 5 minutes away from there, and from my experience they have some of the highest prices around here. $850 for a Sig Sauer P226. $650 for a S&W 686 PP.

I do appreciate the heads up though.