SquirrelNuts
Member
I can see no good from registration. It will not deter criminals from getting guns. It will only make things harder on law abiding citizens.
Help me educate someone please
- Thread starter Wa shooter
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Wa shooter
Member
Thanks for all the replies. I'll go for round two this coming weekend armed, (no pun intended), with the gunfacts booklet. Hey Rainbow, we're practically neighbors and we registered the same day. I don't quite have your post count though.
" He said if registration / no FTF stopped only a few it would be worth it."
This is where the rubber meets the road. You cannot win an argument against someone like this. They simply don't think things through, and could care less if the rights of thousands are trampled to stop a single "would-otherwise-have-been-legal" gun sale to a criminal.
Tim
This is where the rubber meets the road. You cannot win an argument against someone like this. They simply don't think things through, and could care less if the rights of thousands are trampled to stop a single "would-otherwise-have-been-legal" gun sale to a criminal.
Tim
HKUSP45C
Member
rainbowbob said:
Because there was absolutely no registration before the confiscation. Therefore it is a situation that doesn't apply to this particular discussion because it falls outside of the original parameters.
bigione
Member
and be very careful when defining "assualt weapon" as my Rem 66 fits some definitions! It's in the fine print.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
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- Nov 14, 2007
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- 13,146
Well, explain it to him/her like this:
In SEVENTY YEARS of gun registration in the entire country of Canada, only THREE crimes total have been solved with the use of registration data.
In about FIFTY YEARS of gun registration in the state of Hawaii (which has very closed /controlled borders, so if there's anywhere that registration *should* work, in theory, to help solve crimes, it should be there), there have been exactly ZERO crimes solved with the use of registration data.
So, weigh that infinitessimally small potential benefit of registration against the enormous *potential* harm of it being a stepping stone to disarmament, which it nearly always is (happened in California with .50 cals, IIRC - had to register them under penalty of jail, and then had to turn them in under penalty of jail, correct?), which amounts to a complete obliteration of a fundamental civil right, and you can see that the cost/benefit analysis is not on the side of registration.
Katrina was most certainly door to door confiscation, but it's not too terribly relevant to a discussion of registration, because they just went a-lookin' and a-askin' for guns - no registration database used for that (there's NOT any in La). Those folks should have said go pound sand when asked if they have guns, and THEN the lack of registration would have worked to allow them to retain, so that's a great argument for no registration, even in the absence of use of registration, which COULD HAVE made an illegal disarmament episode even worse that it was/could be. Unfortunately, too many N.O. area residents were honest with Mr. National Guardsman, and admitted to having guns, so the lack of registration was of limited usefulness. Unfortunately, I think that next time a massive illegal rights-trample occurs, ultimately it would be better for our rights and the nation itself if the tree of liberty is refreshed a bit, along with citizens engaging in wholesale misrepresentations to the illegal disarming force. And I don't say that lightly, as my brother was a member of one of the national guard units sent down there, and yes, I would have accepted his death as a necessary condition to maintaining liberty, however difficult that may have been.
In SEVENTY YEARS of gun registration in the entire country of Canada, only THREE crimes total have been solved with the use of registration data.
In about FIFTY YEARS of gun registration in the state of Hawaii (which has very closed /controlled borders, so if there's anywhere that registration *should* work, in theory, to help solve crimes, it should be there), there have been exactly ZERO crimes solved with the use of registration data.
So, weigh that infinitessimally small potential benefit of registration against the enormous *potential* harm of it being a stepping stone to disarmament, which it nearly always is (happened in California with .50 cals, IIRC - had to register them under penalty of jail, and then had to turn them in under penalty of jail, correct?), which amounts to a complete obliteration of a fundamental civil right, and you can see that the cost/benefit analysis is not on the side of registration.
Katrina was most certainly door to door confiscation, but it's not too terribly relevant to a discussion of registration, because they just went a-lookin' and a-askin' for guns - no registration database used for that (there's NOT any in La). Those folks should have said go pound sand when asked if they have guns, and THEN the lack of registration would have worked to allow them to retain, so that's a great argument for no registration, even in the absence of use of registration, which COULD HAVE made an illegal disarmament episode even worse that it was/could be. Unfortunately, too many N.O. area residents were honest with Mr. National Guardsman, and admitted to having guns, so the lack of registration was of limited usefulness. Unfortunately, I think that next time a massive illegal rights-trample occurs, ultimately it would be better for our rights and the nation itself if the tree of liberty is refreshed a bit, along with citizens engaging in wholesale misrepresentations to the illegal disarming force. And I don't say that lightly, as my brother was a member of one of the national guard units sent down there, and yes, I would have accepted his death as a necessary condition to maintaining liberty, however difficult that may have been.
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rainbowbob
Member
Dr THW:
Thanks for clarifying that point. I didn't realize it was a door-to-door "voluntary" confiscation.
It's hard to imagine responding to a request that I turn over my firearms in that situation with any other response than..."Nope - don't have any - don't know anybody who has any...but thanks for stopping by."
Blackbeard
Member
Use the Socratic method of teaching by asking questions. You get them to discover the answer through their own answers.
What is the point of gun registration?
Will all guns in the field today be registered?
If there are still millions of unregistered guns, can they still be used to commit crimes?
Are registered guns harder to steal?
Can stolen registered guns be used to commit crimes?
Does registration help to solve crimes if the gun is not left behind?
Does registration have any effect on crime whatsoever?
If registration has no effect on crime, what possible benefit could it be other than a prelude to confiscation?
What is the point of gun registration?
Will all guns in the field today be registered?
If there are still millions of unregistered guns, can they still be used to commit crimes?
Are registered guns harder to steal?
Can stolen registered guns be used to commit crimes?
Does registration help to solve crimes if the gun is not left behind?
Does registration have any effect on crime whatsoever?
If registration has no effect on crime, what possible benefit could it be other than a prelude to confiscation?
renegade1alpha
Member.
I have had a similar discussion with a guy who said that he didn't have a problem with gun registration. He also went on to say that he would even be in support of a full ban on "assault rifles" and semi auto handguns because they really served no legitimate purpose. He then said, "I only shoot bolt action rifles and pump shotguns so it wouldn't affect me anyway."
Good luck with trying to reason with him. I think gun owners like that are more of a threat than those who dont own guns at all.
Good luck with trying to reason with him. I think gun owners like that are more of a threat than those who dont own guns at all.
EOD Guy
Member
In 1999, the California Attorney general order the confiscation of approx 2000 SKS "Sporter rifles" that had been registered as assault rifles. They tried to call it a "buy back" but the confiscations were mandatory.
See the link or Goggle "California SKS Confiscation".
California SKS Confiscations
Chicago has also used registration lists to confiscate firearms from owners whose FOID cards had expired.
New York has also used registration lists to confiscate firearms when they changed firearms permits from "for life" to 5 years, a change many of the permit holders were not aware of.
See the link or Goggle "California SKS Confiscation".
California SKS Confiscations
Chicago has also used registration lists to confiscate firearms from owners whose FOID cards had expired.
New York has also used registration lists to confiscate firearms when they changed firearms permits from "for life" to 5 years, a change many of the permit holders were not aware of.
chuckusaret
member
UOTE]Thanks for clarifying that point. I didn't realize it was a door-to-door "voluntary" confiscation.[/QUOTE]
Not true, the LEO's went door to door, but they also took what others had reported to them. If a person was seen or known to have a gun they took it. The law suits continue so my brother says. He lives outside of New Orleans and is involved in one of the law suits. Food for thought: Where did the weapons taken go? Some were taken to a police holding area and some disappeared to places unknown.
I am glad that I live in a state where our elected leaders have common sense. You must have a gun to protect your property after a hurricane here in Florida. The storms are the tickets for one group of people to plunder and pillage. They came to my neighborhood after Wilma but quickly left when they saw that the residents were armed with long guns. The Castle Doctrine does work.
Not true, the LEO's went door to door, but they also took what others had reported to them. If a person was seen or known to have a gun they took it. The law suits continue so my brother says. He lives outside of New Orleans and is involved in one of the law suits. Food for thought: Where did the weapons taken go? Some were taken to a police holding area and some disappeared to places unknown.
I am glad that I live in a state where our elected leaders have common sense. You must have a gun to protect your property after a hurricane here in Florida. The storms are the tickets for one group of people to plunder and pillage. They came to my neighborhood after Wilma but quickly left when they saw that the residents were armed with long guns. The Castle Doctrine does work.
Deanimator
Member
Then wouldn't a complete ban and confiscation be even MORE "worth it"?
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