HELP! My 12ga Rem Fig-8 wads won't open when fired...

[nitesite]

I was checking some 12ga reloads yesterday over my chronograph and found something that is troubling.

The four petals on the Remington Figure-8 wads are stitched. Of the few wads I recovered, each wad had only one of its four stitches break.



Here's the load:

Rem STS Premier and Nitro Gold SC and Nitro 27 HC once hired hulls
Red Dot 17.8 gr thru a Mec #30 bushing
Winchester 209 primers
Lawrence brand magnum 8.5 shot
Chronoed at HI 1159-fps LO 1123-fps (matches the load data)

Anyone else having the same result? It pains me to spend extra money for premium components and then have this happen.

I didn't have the time to set up a pattern test, and today it was too cold and windy to set up a board. I'm sure this is going to have a detrimental (horrible) effect on my patterns. Unless I use them for turkey loads...

Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Dave McCracken]

What was the ambient temperature? You mention cold and windy.

I usually bump my loads up one bushing, still staying within published limits, when the temps drop.

 

[nitesite]

Hi, Dave.

I usually bump my loads up one bushing, still staying within published limits, when the temps drop.

Is this to get the same velocities as in warm conditions?

Actually, the day I did the chrono test it was 68-degrees and calm, elevation 669' ASL. That seems warm enough to me. The cold and windy day mentioned was the following day, after a cold front moved in.

The ammunition and shotgun were at the same temperature as the outside air. I can do my shooting mere feet from my home and our thermostat was set to 68 when I took the gun and ammunition outside.

I would think that cooler wads would break the stitch more than warmer ones as they would be less elastic. But really, those things (the stitches) are so miniscule why wouldn't they break when encountering any air resistance at the speeds mentioned? Is this a recent phenomenon I just haven't heard of?

Thank You for your interest, Sir.

 

[HSMITH]

What did the patterns look like, that is the ONLY important thing here.

If you want petals to open in any weather at any reasonable speed switch to genuine AA wads. They flat work.

 

[Dave McCracken]

That's to duplicate performance,nitesite. At 68 F,it shouldn't be a prob, though.

I don't have a chrono, how the things bust clays are a better indicator to me.

I've used either AA wads or the Claybuster clones since I started rolling my own.

 

[berettashotgun]

Could it be the wads are not properly cut? I buy unslit wads for my steelshot dove loads and use a modified broadhead to cut them. I would just take a razor blade to the culprit wads.

 

[berettashotgun]

BTW- Had to add this- looks like a perfect turkey shell wad to me.

 

[mswestfall]

nitsite

You make me think to much here!

I would guess that this is not effecting your pattern. I also suspect that the wad is slowed more by a tighter choke that a more open choke. And also that the choke effects the pattern more than wad-to-wad variation (assuming the same type).

I know that you can create a "spreader load" by putting in half the shot then folding a wad leaf over and putting in the rest of the shot.

Now that I said all that I'd sure like to see some pictures of your patterning board.

I shoot with a few guys that load Figure 8's. I'll pick up some at the range and see if they open/split or not.

 

[nitesite]

My initial concern when I opened this thread was if (in these loads of mine) the wad was going to perform more like a Federal Flite-Control wad.

The jury is still out of course, as I have yet to test for patterns at known distances and compare them with factory loaded STS Light Target loads at the same velocity, choke and distance on the same day.

Here is the brief reply I have received so far from Remington this morning.

"Good Morning David sorry it has taken me awhile to get back with you but I had to get with the ammunition plant to try and find out the information you were asking about. I hope this helps."

"The wads haven't shown any issues with patterning or with stitches breaking at firing in any of our testing. The stitching has been used to keep the wads in shape during shipping and to help with feeding on automated loading equipment."

Of course, I have sent back some follow-up questions for my own clarification; but I don't expect Big Green to re-engineer anything.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that my 1140-fps average velocity is right at the threshold of opening consistently with the Fig-8S.

I would sure like to know if their STS Light Target 1-1/8 oz Light Target factory ammunition (advertised 1145-fps) has non-stitched petals while us reloaders have to deal with stitched ones! I must check their factory load over the chronograph when patterning...

Perhaps I should just go up to a #32 bushing for 1200-fps and try again.

 

[ArmedBear]

Remington makes great hulls.

I haven't tried their new primers, as Winchesters work great for me and there's no reason to change, since they're readily available around here.

I've never reloaded using Remington's wads. Claybusters load easily and pattern well for me, and they're cheaper, as an added bonus.

If you want a wad that works well with light loads (is this for skeet or 16 yard practice, or ???), though, have you looked at Windjammers?

The petals really thin and uniform. They're not expensive, and they've worked really well for me with lighter charges than what you're using.

When I got my MEC (free, courtesy of DocZinn who found it in a garage) it only had a 27 bushing, so that's what I used for my first loads while waiting for some others in the mail. With Windjammers and 1 1/8 oz. of 8's, the load patterned great with about 15.5 grains of 700X, a pretty low-velocity load.

My Remington hulls have never complained when I used other brands' components as appropriate.

 

[ArmedBear]

I buy unslit wads for my steelshot dove loads and use a modified broadhead to cut them.

What's the story behind this?

 

[HSMITH]

Uncut wads are sold to people wanting to tailor the wad to their application. The wad does have a significant effect on patterns thrown and can be used to manipulate patterns with different cuts.

 

[mswestfall]

HSMITH

Is there literature available to explain how wads effect patterning?

 

[berettashotgun]

The unslit wads I bought( 5k !) were from Ballistic Products. I was relatively new to steelshot reloading and wanted to get some practice loads made up- quick. Since the wads were very thich to protect the barrel from pellet galling and wear, I tried using some scissors- but that was hard work. I had a few old broadheads and broken arrows soo....., along with a piece of tubing I made an attachment for my rifle press with a shellholder and a piece of plastic pipe. Kinda of redneck, but was much easier on my hands. Yeah, I still have 3k + wads left. Waiting on a Grandchild to pass all this (real) useful knowledge to

 

[berettashotgun]

Got to rambling, anyways, I found that 3 slits all the way to the bottom worked excellent with 1600fps #7.5 steelshot. Actually 1540-1625fps, tried faster loads (more powder ) but never really reached a perfect pattern. Works plenty well. Also doubles as a medium range duck load with #1,2, or 3 shot.

 

[HSMITH]

mwestfall, not that I am aware of. At least not a specific guide that will say 'do this and get that' type of document.

 

[TrapperReady]

mwestfall and HSMITH - In a round-about way, if you get the Ballistic Products catalog, you can read through it and see what features are touted for the different wads they sell. Now, I'd bet a good deal of those claims are little more than marketing, but if you read it with a critical eye, you can get an idea about them.

For example, thicker, longer petals are more protective of the barrel, but can increase the effective choke of a given bore. Thinner petals will tend to open faster and not tighten up patterns as much. Large, multi-chambered cushioned areas will tend to protect the shot better, etc...