Help needed in Legal & Political

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Greg L

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In THIS THREAD there is a story about an 84 year old shooting her son in law with a .22 at 200 or so yards. The general opinion seems to be that such a shot is incredible at that distance and that the hold over would be several feet. Personally I don't consider it that difficult to hit a man sized target with open sites at that distance, but apparently some do. Any help pointing out that 200 yards really isn't that far with a rifle would be appreciated.

Greg
 
I used Remington's .22 long rifle ballistics page for the velocities. Most .22 ammo starts out between 1000 and 1500 fps, but the faster rounds are lighter, so they shed velocity faster. An average of about 900 fps seems reasonable. At 900 fps, 200 yards (600 feet) takes 2/3 second (600/900). Remembering beginning Newtonian mechanics, and gravitational acceleration of 32 f/s/s, 1/2 at^2 = 1/2 * 32 * (2/3)^2 = 16 * 4/9 = = 64/9 = 7 feet and a little over an inch drop at 200 yards.

Conclusion: she had to aim round about 4 feet over his head for a gut shot. If the gun was sighted in at 25 yards or less (where the drop is negligible).

The drop at 100 yards is 16 * 1/9 feet = about 21 inches. So if her sights were zeroed at 100 yards, she'd have to aim about 2 feet over his head to get a gut shot.

The lady must know her rifle and be a good judge of distance.

Then again, the article said: "Police say Gertrude Raines shot Charles Davis, 62, with a .22-caliber rifle. Authorities say the rifle did not have a scope." We're all thinking that ".22-caliber rifle" without a scope means ".22 long rifle" with a leaf rear sight. It could also mean ".223 Remington". Maybe she had an AR or, more likely, a Ruger Mini-14. With either of those, hitting a human-size target at 200 yards with metal (aperature) sights is downright easy.
 
I shoot soda cans at 200 yards with my scoped 77/22 all the time. It's a trick for beer money. Anyway, the drop for a 40 grain .22 LR bullet at ~1250 fps is about 36-40 inches. I believe I use about 19 MOA elevation. It's not that tough if the range is known.

Here's a trajectory listing for a standard velocity .22 LR:

50 yd. zero
100 yards -5.4"
150 yards -19.5"
200 yards -43.6"
250 yards -78.2"
300 yards -128"
350 yards -191"
400 yards -271"
450 yards -369"

I haven't been able to check these, but I got them off the Internet somewhere, and they seem pretty close to what I'd expect. If the wind is blowing, it's a little more interesting.;)

George
 
Whether a shooter can deliberately hit a man-sized target at 200 yards with a .22LR depends on the shooter. But it is certainly not a difficult feat with some hold over.

I can hit a man sized target consistently with a 3" barrel J frame S&W shooting .38 wad cutters, so I think hitting the same size target with a .22 rifle would not be hard.

Jim
 
As I posted over there, I've done a fair amount of shooting at 100 yards and about 125 yards with a Dan Wesson 22 revolver. I can usually keep my shots to under 1" at 25 yards and 2.5"-3" at 50 yards. 100 yards opens up a bit. Matter of fact, I've never kept 12 shots in the black of a 50 yard small bore rifle target. But at 100 yards, if I can only keep 5 shots on the 12" gong at 100 yards I'm having a bad day. But sighted to be dead on at 25 yards, MiniMags are only about 4" low at 100 yards. In a 6" barrel revolver. For the 100 yard gong, I aim right for the top of it then correct for wind give or take. With a 16" or 18" barrel, and Stingers or Vipers, I think it would be possible to not have to hold over several feet. But at 200 yards, I think a lot would need to be on your side.

Of course, it doesn't say how many times she missed, either. :D
 
I am betting on Mr. St. Clairs observation of the caliber.

It probably was a Mini 14 shot. Picked that baby up and busted a cap. Woah---women scored!

Better wear a helmet (:)-) :neener:
 
Charley Whitman proved that the vertical target presented by a person is a fairly easy thing to hit. He popped a fella near me at 420 yards. He put a bullet within inches of a guy at about 550.

I regularly do a playtime thing on my 185-yard hanging plate. It's a good practice object for offhand shooting. At 18" square, it's not too demanding, yet it's small enough to require some concentration. As I said, for a 10/22 sighted in at about 50 yards, I just hold for about the top line of the plate and hit near the bottom. I ain't gonna argue about a few inches of air.

We don't really know what rifle nor what ammo Grandma was using. We know nothing of her skill. It's quite possible the rifle was zeroed for around 50 to 75 yards and she might have taken a "full" bead and tried for a head shot.

Or, she might have just been slinging lead in the general direction of the roof and the deal was just unlucky for all concerned.

As a shot, however, it wasn't all that difficult.

Art
 
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