Help needed with I.J. Sealed 8

[DeepSouth]

Ok first what I have is an IJ Target Sealed 8, octagon barrel 8 shot 22 revolver serial #8295
What I know is, IJ is Iver Johnson And the octagon barrel dates it to pre-WW2.
Value of the gun in the current condition is probably about 10¢.

The back story, this is the first pistol my grandfather ever shot, he learned to shoot with it and it has been shot a LOT. Apparently at some point years ago something broke and the cylinder wouldn't turn, my dad (the machinist) decided to see if he could fix it. Well years later he remembered it was still in his tool box, just completely covered in rust. More years and more rust he takes it out and gives it to me. He apparently never tried to fix it.

So now I have a worthless, rusted up, not working family heirloom that I want fixed. It still kind of works, as in the hammer cocks and if you pull the trigger hard enough the hammer will fall, it'll probably loosen up with a soaking in penetrating oil.

What I don't know is if parts are avaliable, somehow I think it's doubtful but if anyone knows please let me know.
I would imagine it's above my pay grade to try and fix it even in the unlikely event I did have parts.

I just don't know what to do, their isn't a gunsmith within 100 miles of me that I know of, and I'm not sure they'd want to tackle this if someone was around.

So what do I do to get this thing fixed/restored, if it's even possible.
Any ideas/advise is very appreciated as I'm lost.

 

[Jim K]

That serial number probably has a letter prefix which will show if the left grip is removed. The full number, including the letter, will be needed to find the date of manufacture if you want that.

The bad news is that most gunsmiths won't touch those because costs of repair usually exceed the value of the gun and it would be nearly impossible to warrant any repair since once one thing is fixed, something else breaks. Add that parts are about unobtainable, and you will see that repairs will be hard to come by unless you can do them yourself or find a hobbyist who will take on the job as a favor.

Without seeing the gun, I would have no idea what might be wrong or what parts might be needed, even if you did choose to tackle the job yourself.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but it might be best to clean up the gun and give it an honorable retirement as a family heirloom.

Jim

 

[DeepSouth]

Honestly that's what I expected to hear, but I really, really want this thing fixed.
I wouldn't expect a warranty, and I'm sure the cost of repair would be much more than the value of the gun but I'm fine with that, cost isn't my priority.
My cash is still green, surely I can find someone that'll take it on.

 

[DeepSouth]

Would anyone happen to know if these sealed 8's parts would be close to interchangeable. Maybe the post WW2 parts will work on the Per-WW2 guns? Seems to more of them around.
I'm very open to buying a functioning one just to cannibalize parts if I have to.

As you can tell I'm grasping for straws. Lol

EDIT:
You are correct Jim, I removed the grip (1 piece) and found
M 8295
Thanks for that info, my grandfather was born in 29 and bought this gun as a teenager so the year is likely early forties

 

[retDAC]

Could you provide some decent pix?

 

[DeepSouth]

After a decent soaking in penetrating oil, things got better.
With the cylinder removed, it seems to function fine in Sa and DA, just at with a terrible trigger which is not surprising.
When the cylinder is installed it might rotate it a shot or two then it locks, the cylinder appears to be in terrible shape, putting it nicely.

I did snap some pics.

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I'm assuming the blue on the back of the cylinder is something my dad put on it to see the contact points, something machinists use. The name escapes me. Also the rust seems to mostly surface rust, there is some pitting but it's not bad nor a whole lot of it. But as I said zero original finish remains.

 

[Comrade Mike]

The blue stuff is Dkyem. Should come right off.

 

[RaceM]

Odds are good there's nothing there you can't fix yourself. Strip her on down, clean everything out. A lot of guns in that genre will have very thin, flat, V springs that break due to age and rust. Might be replaceable with piano wire.

 

[DeepSouth]

So does anyone know if I buy a working IJ Sealed 8 if the parts will interchange?
Especially if the post war ones are the same as the per war, parts wise.

 

[Jim K]

I think that revolver dates to before 1909, not just to before WWII. And it is not a sealed 8, or at least the cylinder is not, since the Sealed 8 cylinder had flanges around the ends to protect against a burst case or flash from the barrel-cylinder gap (that is why it was called the "sealed" 8).

I see three main problems. One is the hand, which is appears to be broken on the end instead of pointed to engage the ratchet. The second is that the firing pin, perhaps home made, is pointed when it should be flat for firing rimfire cartridges, and it is too long, resulting in the edges of the chambers being beaten in so badly that a cartridge rim will have no support and will be bent in rather than firing. Further the ratchet is badly worn. I would consider the cylinder to be beyond repair, but some IJ cylinders are available.

I checked Gun Parts Corp. web site and they have almost no parts for the solid frame Sealed 8, but I believe a cylinder for another model might fit, it just wouldn't have the "seal". I suggest contacting them (contact info is at www.gunpartscorp.com ) and see if they can help. Preferably write a letter rather than a phone call or e-mail, and send the photos along.

HTH

Jim

 

[DeepSouth]

Thanks for that info Jim, I will be contacting them by letter. Hopefully they'll have good news.
Also on the barrel it says " I J Sealed Target 8 " now the cylinder, who knows where it came from.

Thanks again

 

[DeepSouth]

Update and more questions

Okay, so I bought another sealed 8 of basically the same model that was in really good shape, I'd say better than 80%. So I cannibalized it and changed out most of the internal parts on mine. Now I believe I have mine working properly, but I'm not sure.

I haven't been able to get my google-foo working on this gun so I'm not sure I even know how it's supposed to operate.

The double action will only work from what I assume to be half cock, if the hammer is fully down the trigger will not pull, it just goes back roughly a 1/4" and stops.
If you "half cock" the hammer bey pulling it back about 3/8" then the you can pull the trigger and fire the gun.
You can also fully cock the gun, then if you pull the trigger the hammer will move back slightly before falling and firing a round. I will mention after it fires the hammer is full down and again will not fire unless it's cocked to half or full cock. I'm not even sure this gun is supposed to have a single action mode, but my dad told me he can remember my grandfather cocking it before he shot it, he also said that doesn't mean it was working properly then.

I will add everything is lined up fine when it fires from both the half cock and full cock positions.

I have been told the half cock is a "carry" mode, it is essentially the safety. I'm not sure this is correct as the cylinder will spin freely when half cocked. I assume it's for loading, but if you carry it with hammer down it will be resting on live round, assuming it's fully loaded.


The short question is "can someone tell me how this thing is supposed to operate so I can know if I have it fixed or not?"

 

[FROGO207]

How did the replacement operate before you took it apart? That is where I would have started. I own several of the old IJ and H&R black powder revolvers in 32 S&W and 38 S&W. Mine all will fire from pulling the trigger back with hammer down and when cocked. Half cock is to load with as far as I can see. Or you remove the cylinder to load/unload it. There might be a bit of fitting to be done to make the double action part work in yours I would think. You could always put the parts back into the original donor and watch how it works then try it again with parts back in yours and look for binding etc. These are not that hard to understand how they operate. You just need to learn what happens to make things operate.
I bet the hammer has different spots that engage than the original. can you try the old trigger/hammer with the rest of the parts from the new one?

 

[DeepSouth]

How did the replacement operate before you took it apart?

That's an excellent question, I only wish I could remember. It's been months since it was together.

I would reassemble the new one and see, but honestly I've assembled dozens of combinations of "new" and old parts to get it to the point where I can at least fire it. If I even change the cylinder pin it locks up every few rounds, much less other parts. I'm just scared if I take it apart and reassemble then it's back to the drawing board. A lot of my problem is simple frustration.

I had also checked the parts and they all appeared to be nearly identical, to the eye so I doubt the hammer is different, I could sit one on top of the other and sear engagements seemed to line up perfectly.

 

[FROGO207]

Those were all hand fitted internal parts and I bet that some more fitting is going to be required. I am not a trained gunsmith but when one can look at how the pieces interact and understand basic operation I can usually figure out what is wrong with my firearm. BUT I am not there with you to look at it and do not have that much experience to help further. I had an older Uberti 45 Colt repro and it needed a new hammer. It was worn where the hand rubbed/retracted so I purchased a new hammer and installed it. It had a jagged piece of metal in one of the notches that was there after grinding during production and would not cock at all until I removed it. Then the trigger pull was about 1/2 LB. I had to slowly take away more on the hammer to get a heavier trigger pull The whole time measuring and eyeballing things the "look" of both hammers was always the same. I chose to remove metal from the hammer to keep from removing the case hardening from the other mating parts as the hammer was the original trouble. A little stoning was all it took but I *may* have gone through the case hardening on it anyway. I will see how long this one lasts. Also when removing/changing parts there is a tremendous liability if there was to ever be an accident when using this firearm in the future. I understand your frustration there and some time away from it might help you clear your mind and allow you to refocus on it at a later date. If all else fails a trip to a competent gunsmith might be in order. I will do the same if I pass by my current comfort level every time. Just sayin.