Help on getting a hoplophobe to the range

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Bigjake

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Heres the situation.

I've got a friend, a lady I've known forever. She is one of the coolest women i know (sadly, 20 some years older than me with 5 kids, all but one grown.) This gal (we'll call her Linda, to protect the innocent), is of the independent, take no crap from anyone, and give it right back to you type. lots of fun. She runs her own business from home, 2 doors down from my house, So I end up over there BS'ing pretty often. Her shop is like the barber shop, always somebody coming or going.

I've known Linda forever, hung out with her older kids, even go shooting with her son (he's 22). The problem I have, is that every time it comes up, she goes right to the standard "I hate guns" thing. Drives me nuts. She's really not an irrational person, or a Liberal (redundancy alert), just kind of funny on this one subject.

I know I can get her to the range at some point, but I guess I'm looking for the way to make sure its a positive experience. I think this will be a "one shot" deal. If she hates it, no chance for a second try.

What would you guys and gals suggest to make this go as smoothly as possible? I've got all kinds of "fun" guns (light recoil etc...) which way do i go with this?
 
Sounds like you have a pretty difficult problem, you could try asking her if she would atleast try coming to the range as a personal favor to you, and if she does not like it you will not ask her to go again or discuss it.
 
Here's the key:

.22's. (Obvious)

Reactive targets. (Clays, fruit, cans, balloons, steel spinners or plates, etc.)

Close range. (Make it easy)

No other shooters. (No other gunfire, or RO's barking orders)
 
getting her to the range is a non-issue. She'll do it.

The goal is to correct the "oh, I HATE guns" reflex at the slightest mention of fun metal projectile slinging devices.

I just remembered that I also have the leverage of her 13 year old son begging me to take him shooting at some point....

Bogie, I like it man.... cookout afterwards...
 
Do you own personal property like a farm. Do you know anyone who has a farm. If so then you could take her to shoot out there, if you the think the guy next to you has a 500 mag. and shakes the whole range with every shot.

If you do know someone with personal property outside of city limits, then I think this would be the best way to go.........Just throwen out ideas, hopefully it will be a good experience. I'll cross my fingers for ya;)
And +1 for the .22 idea, I think plinkin' with those is about the most fun you can have with your cloths on. A BBQ afterwords is also a good Idea...

Good luck..:)
 
Hrmm.. having been a "hoplophobe" at one point, I can say nothing changes your mind faster than a nice close call with one of Cooper's goblins, but that's not exactly something you'd want to (or could) engineer. :)

Failing that.. maybe just play two year old.

"I hate guns"
"why?"
"because they're evil"
"why?"
etc....
 
some pre-range training, perhaps?

A friend and I recently organized a trip involving several of our law-school classmates to a local indoor range.

I created a flyer that I sent to everyone in the group, most of whom had never fired a gun before, and a few of whom are/were overcoming long-ingrained fear of guns. Your friend isn't exactly the same audience, but perhaps some calm discussion (with no guns present, except perhaps a blue / red training gun if you have one to hand :)) and familiarization with rules, procedures, etc, would make a trip to the range far more fun and less stressful.

(I put the bulk of the text from my flyer below, take it for what you will.)

Also, if possible, and again a super-unloaded gun or a training gun would be ideal, I know I'd have liked a better explanation before my first range trip of what to do in the event of a FTL, FTF, or FTE. Basically, any TLA that begins with an F :)

"You're going to knock stoutly here with your palm, you're going to pull back on the slide while pushing forward with the grip, and then bang!"

I'm by no means an expert shot or expert anything else, but I know the first time the slide went back and I didn't know what to do (firing rented guns with my basically non-gunny father), it was a panicky feeling. Is there a cartridge in there that's going to explode?! The more I learn, the better I know how to be safe, and the safer I feel, but there's nothing intuitive about what to do when guns act other than as expected. Demystifying makes things safer and more fun all 'round!

timothy

------------------ Below is the bulk of the text that went to our shooting-range initiates -----------------------

A few suggestions

First, don't panic. Gun ranges are loud (sorry 'bout that), reek of gunpowder, and usually are practical rather than luxurious. Even with the hearing protection shooters wear, the sound of nearly any handgun is loud enough to be disconcerting, and for ammunition more powerful than .22, at close range the blast can be felt through the chest as well as heard. That's not the only source of noise, though: because of well-intended regulations (or, alternatively, as an inevitable result of enlightened self-interest), shooting ranges tend to be extremely well ventilated, by means of noisy fans. Also, there's a strange sensation that many people experience when wearing sound-blocking hearing protection (as we will all be wearing) of experiencing a background hiss, an odd sense of anticipating and imagining sound, rather than actually hearing it. The light at indoor ranges is usually dim to moderate (and fluorescent), not bright. If you consider these facts calmly in advance, none of them should be very bothersome. Remember that our prime goal is recreation, enjoyment and knowledge.

Therefore, come in prepared to have good clean fun, safely. Wikipedia has a decent overview of the usual gun-safety rules (complete with YouTube videos rife with delicious Shadenfreude) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety

The details as presented at the Club may vary, but the thrust will be similar. Most gun range safety officers take an understandably dim and humorless view of anything other than sober, deliberate adherence to their rules. Jokes or horseplay that might seem reasonable among friends in some other circumstances don't make sense in a room full of dangerous weapons.

My favorite gun safety rule is "Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire." Partly because of movies and television (goes one story), new shooters expect to have their trigger finger actually on the trigger anytime the gun is in sight. It's certainly tempting to rest it there -- it is the "trigger finger," right? Don't. Typical modern guns are nigh incapable of firing without direct pressure on the trigger except in the most outlandish and contrived circumstances (there are exceptions, which are only 98% as contrived), so keeping your finger off the trigger is a powerful step toward not causing the gun to make noise prematurely.

Don't shoot on an empty stomach or an over-full one. You want to be alert and energetic.

It's worth repeating already: guns are loud. Try to prepare for this mentally. Some people (like me) prefer to wear both in-ear and over-the-ear hearing protection; the protection is fairly cheap and effective, while ears are fragile and cloning is iffy. Having heard just a few shots at close range without protection in place, I assert that if it were possible to leave my ears in a safety deposit box outside the range and reattach them afterwards, I'd look into it. Unless the safety officer at the range says otherwise and with evident good reason, any time you're in the firing range, you should have on your hearing protection. [Aside: consider the considerable danger to shooter's hearing -- costly and tragic -- that is unintentionally caused by restrictions on noise suppressors (sometimes called "silencers") under current BATFE rules, as well as under many even-more-restrictive state laws.]

Eyes, similarwise. Wear your eye protection! Remember the lab warning "Do not look in laser with remaining eye." If you're firing an autoloader, as I suspect most of us will be, there will be some flying brass in the air; the outer shell (case) from each cartridge you fire has to go someplace to make room for the next one in line. Typically, that empty case is ejected with some force to the shooter's right and rear, and it's hot. This case can be whipped quite a ways, can ricochet off another surface, etc, and is just generally less predictable than you'd probably like it to be. For those shooting revolvers, the brass from each cartridge will stay in the revolver's cylinder ("shooty-bullet-holder-spinny-thing") until you remove it to reload the gun, but it's not necessarily brass from your own gun that you should be worried about. Besides these brass tubes (which you can know about and expect), eye protection is also to minimize the risk of injury if anything else should decide to hurtle toward your eyes. (Even a mote of dust could be propelled in an unlucky direction.) So there's a good reason besides range rules to keep your eye protection in place: the thought that it's better than a hot piece of brass bashing your cornea, whether it came from your gun or one four lanes down. Don't be the inspiration for a cautionary limerick.

New shooters often fear recoil -- the "kick" of a gun when it's fired. Try rather to anticipate recoil (Newton says it has to happen, after all) and let your body absorb it wholistically. There's a reason guns are typically shaped to fit the whole hand, and not just a few fingers. Think of your hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders (and so on, right down to both pinky toes) as part of a tough, elastic chain that can handily, happily tame the recoil of any small handgun caliber if you keep it well coupled to the gun you're firing and properly poised. By contrast, holding the gun loosely or limply out of fear or anxiety is a guaranteed route to further discomfiture if not actual discomfort, and -- what's worse -- is a frequent cause of an unintended "followup shot" as a result of deciding too late to keep a grip on the gun, after the trigger's been pulled. Anyone who's swung a baseball bat (especially an aluminum one) with the handle held loosely rather than tightly has probably felt the jarring that results from a nervous, too-light grip.

In fact, the pressure with which you might hold onto a baseball bat is probably a passable guide for the firmness of your grip on the gun; slightly past the squeeze of a firm handshake, but less than needed for an angry strangling. There's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to holding the gun; if your muscles are clamped so tightly that your arms or shoulders are quivering with the tension, you'll have a lot less fun (and lower accuracy). If you find your muscles tensing too much, concentrate on slow and steady breathing.

Ammunition is not included in the price of training; that's because the management knows that shooting is fun and "just a few more rounds" is easy for most shooters to rationalize.

After we're done, wash your hands thoroughly. There are nasty things in ammunition (lead, solvents, primer chemicals) that -- going by conventional wisdom -- are no big deal as long as they don't hang around. For pregnant persons, it's a different story. If you know, believe, or suspect you might be a pregnant person, consult your doctor before deciding to shoot recreationally.
 
A followup; plus, What AJ Dual said :)

Reactive targets, and close range, are really good ideas.

I recommend generic soda :)

Also, if you give her a take-home paper target marked with all the relevant information (date, caliber, distance, type of gun), it might encourage a repeat visit for improvement ;)

If you have a Ruger or other .22 target pistol, I recommend that -- the noise is plenty for a 1st-time shooter (IMO), and though it's "nothing" to people on this forum generally, it has *some* recoil, but not so much that a bad grip means a broken wrist ;) So it's a good thing on which to learn.

(Of course, 45ACP is actually a nice forgiving thing to shoot if a good grip is achieved ... ;) But .22 is smarter for at least a few mags.)

timothy
 
I'm curious about the whole "pregnant person" thing - wouldn't that be "pregnant lady"?
 
yhtomit, would you mind terribly if I were to "borrow" your text and adapt it slightly to better fit my attempts at getting students at my university to get out to the range?

I've attempted to arrange "shooty goodness" trips, but sadly people's schedules did not work out. I'm looking at doing a shooty goodness trip with some advance notice, a BBQ, and maybe asking a few Tucson area THR folks to come along as well. Your text would go a long way to providing a basic briefing for the students to read before actually meeting up and doing the basic safety thing in person prior to heading to the range.
 
For AndyC and heypete

a) AndyC: Pregnant Person is just a verbal habit of mine; Yes, it's, uh, usually women who are pregnant, for high values of "usually." It's just a play on needlessly "neutral" language that verges on self-parody -- there's too much of that in the world that's actually meant to be taken seriously; "pregnant person" is not.

b) heypete: Please do use any part of it that's useful to you. Consider it released under the the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License :)

(I just went to the creativecommons.org site and used their little licensing Wizard to generate that eyesore ... )

I ought to clean up that text and generalize it anyhow, and actually put it online under that license; any input gratefully received at timothy @ monkey (daht) org

(One thing I just noticed that's a factual rather than phrasing error: I shouldn't say there's solvent in ammunition, as I do right near the end.)

I specifically ought to add some things about the tap-rack-bang procedure, and some reassuring words about what to do in case of a failure.

Cheers,

timothy
 
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I bring an AR. Its fun its impressive and low recoil. If they are frail I will sometimes make my reloads alittle lighter.
A .22 and maybe a 9mm.
I have found that many women are not squeemish about shooting something powerful-I wouldn't automatically assume that they want to shoot BB guns. I have brought more than one women to the range that shunned the .22 after a couple of shots and started grabbing for a 9mm or .38.
 
Has she ever had a frightening experience with a gun? That could explain her fear/dislike of guns.

A few years ago I worked with a lady who was terrified of guns. When she was in high school, she worked part time in a convenience store and witnessed a co-worker being murdered by a shotgun blast during a robbery. She always said she wanted to go with us to the range to try to get over her fear of guns, but she could never bring herself to do so.
 
heypete -- re: scheduling nightmares

Pete:

My friend Dan was the one driving the trip; he started sometime last semester, negotiated a discount for as few as 6 shooters (normally the place wants at least 8 for that), and we thought it would be a piece of cake to find just 4 more to join us -- there are actually a lot of people who'd said they were interested!

But working out schedules turned into a giant nightmare. Every week, one good friend or other (who we really wanted to come with us) couldn't make it, for some very legitimate reason. It came to a breaking point, though, where Dan and I were about to throw in the towel and just go independently and forget the discount, but we did one last attempt, because I wanted to see my friends Yasmin and Susan firing guns -- that's one reason, at least. In the end, the group that went didn't much resemble the group we'd initially expected, but it was great gun, and I'm glad that our group was the size it was (ended up being 9 or 10 I think); much bigger, and it would have been more complicated.

However, we have another range trip in the works, just talking phase right now, but the 1st one got good buzz ... so hopefully, next time will be easier. Hopefully Dan's wife will come next time, too -- she's in her 30s, but only this year got a driver's license, and after that, the next step really *should* be a gun, right? :)

Cheers,

timothy
 
If you have a Ruger or other .22 target pistol, I recommend that -- the noise is plenty for a 1st-time shooter (IMO), and though it's "nothing" to people on this forum generally, it has *some* recoil, but not so much that a bad grip means a broken wrist So it's a good thing on which to learn.

What is this noise you're talking about? (That's my girlfriend in the red, and our friend Kim in the white and her husband Cam.) A suppressed .22 is great for those who are noise sensitive, as well as introducing them to NFA articles and the foolishness that accompanies purchasing one (though I generally focus on the "fun/utility" aspects, rather than the foolishness of the paperwork).

I agree, though. A good .22LR pistol and rifle are essential to getting new shooters "into it". Remember, the first shot is the most important one. Give them a .30-06, and they're likely to not want to keep shooting. But start them out on a .22, and they'll be shooting .223 and .30-06 by the end of the day. Happened with my friend Ross' girlfriend -- she was afraid of the bark of the .223, but loved it. .30-06 out of an M1 Garand looked scary, but once she shot one round, she wanted more ammo.

Thanks for your permission to reproduce your work. It'll definitely come in handy.
 
Shoot Eggs



A friend and I went down to sling .22's at eggs at his uncle's farm,
thinking that his uncle and family would not be there.
Well they were, and I still wanted to shoot, but didn't want to make his family mad.
So we got permission to proceed, and I made certain my friend's aunt was all right with it,
ass-uming that she'd object because her three early-teen kids were there.

Well, not only did everybody think that popping eggs was a riot,
but when the youngest daughter was reluctant to try, thinking that she couldn't handle the rifle properly,
it was her mother that stepped in to teach her daughter how to shoot.

I really wish I had that on video.
 
I am currently converting my girlfriend and I made two mistakes:

1) The first time I took her shooting we went to an indoor range, even with plugs and muffs on it was a little to lowd and she could feel the shock wave too much.

2) I gave her a .22 mossberg plinkster but one stand away I was shooting an M44 and a 12 gauge with slugs. My gun (and its noise) freaked her out more than then the one she shot did.

Since then she's gotten alot more comfortable. But I still don't shoot the 12 when she's with me at the indoor range.
 
Buy a bag of apples, tell her you have a really fun way to make applesauce, and it's a GREAT stress-reliever, but it's a little unconventional, and she might find a bit uncomfy at first, but she's sure to have a blast just watching YOU make applesauce if she doesn't want to help you, bring along a camera and see if she would take pictures, she may not be shooting, but she's INVOLVED. When she gets used to the .22, after a bit, break out the larger artillery.

Good luck!!!!
 
applesauce

You wanna make apple sauce? Try the .17HMR! Still rimfire, no kick; but it'll blow chunks 15 feet in the air! I shot some oranges at 30 yards two days ago. With the 22 they just went "smack" and laid there. With the HMR there was nothing left in the originating spot (except some pulp)!!!

If you know someone with a suppressor so much the better for introducing them to the sport. My 8 year old daughter didn't like shooting "because it thump my chest Daddy" until I got my first can. She will now shoot until she's too sore (the Crickett cocking mechanism) to shoot any more.

Good luck to all.

Bring in more shooters to our sport!
 
Firstly, start with the four primary rules of firearms safety. Essential.

Start with a .22LR. That's a no brainer. I would never try to introduce someone into shooting with my .357 Magnum.

Hearing and eye protection, a must.

If you have access to some farmland, much better than a commercial range. My range commonly has younger males comming in and renting everything from 9mm to .500 Magnum. To be quite honest, they give me the creeps, and a new shooter would be put off rather quickly.

Check with your local range. They just might have a lady's-only training time. I know mine does, and the range is owned by a lady. That might help take the edge off.

That's my $0.02 worth, although it might be $0.01 overpriced. ;)
 
I recently started 2 middle aged ladies shooting. Neither had ever touched a pistol before. I took them to my club range when there weren't many there and started them with a Ruger Mark II target pistol at 21 feet. When they got comfortable with that I let them try more powerful guns at their own pace. The one refers to my Ruger P95 as her "favorite" and the other prefers the S&W model 14.
Over the years I have helped a number of people learn to shoot, and I find that making sure you treat it as a serious business with a major emphasis on safety goes a long way to keeping them relaxed in the beginning.
 
ask her to go to olive garden with you and the shooting range. she might have a good time, and I know of no woman who can turn down Olive Garden.
 
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