Help Please...MN 91/30 bolt close problem

[clark500]

I recently purchased a 91/30 and I am having bolt closing problems. The magazine seems to load correctly and all rounds strip from the magazine appropriately. However, the extractor does not engage the rounds as they are chambering. This results in the bolt refusing to close. If I reopen the bolt at this time, the cartridge does not extract (but it will easily drop out if the muzzle is raised). At this point, most of the threads I see recommend cleaning the chamber and checking headspace. This is where my situation differs from previous posts... If I manually lock a round under the extractor and into the bolt face, the action cycles normally (the bolt closes easily and extraction/ejection is positive). This would seem to rule out inadequate headspace and/or a dirty chamber. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or ideas.

 

[D Rat]

I sugest that you strip the bolt and give it a good cleaning & inspection.

 

[navyretired 1]

Clean bolt and see why round is not sliding up under extractor, Might be new needing fitting or might be bent or broke extractor.

 

[Chawbaccer]

Bolt is probably saturated with cosmoline. Break it down and give it a thorough cleaning.

 

[clark500]

Thanks for the responses. I have had the bolt apart and cleaned it very well. I have removed the extractor and it seems to be in good shape (no crazy bends or burrs), but that is just a guess - I don't have another extractor to compare it to. The fact that I can get a round to chamber very smoothly if I first manually place the round under the extractor and seat it in the bolt face tells me the extractor is simply not sliding over and catching the cartridge rim. The distance required for the extractor to catch the rim is just enough to keep the bolt from closing. I still suspect the extractor, but I guess I still have one question... When exactly should the round be captured by the extractor? I believe some bolts capture the round directly from the magazine while others capture it at the breech face. Can anyone definitively answer this question?

 

[Lee Roder]

I recently experienced a bolt issue with my new to me M1 carbine after disassembling it for cleaning. Even though I managed to get all the parts back together again, I found on close inspection on troubleshooting that I had reassembled the tiny extractor plunger incorrectly. On my gun, the plunger has a flat cut into it which must be oriented to fit against the extractor to allow it full function. The parts will all "fit" together regardless, but things just don't work like they should.

If your bolt has such a tiny piece you might want to check it and its interaction with your extractor carefully.

HTH

 

[clark500]

Thanks for the suggestion. The extractor on a MN 91/30 is a very simple design - 1 piece (no moving parts) that dovetails into the bolt head. As far as I can tell, installation just requires that it be installed flush with the rear of the bolt head. I don't think that it can be installed too far forward as the dovetail slot would not allow this. Too far back would interfere with the movement of the bolt and bolt head - which is where the install it flush comes in. It may be defective in some way, but I do not have a known good part to compare it to.

 

[Duce1]

Just a suggestion here since I do not have the bolt in front of me to know for sure. Why not use the assembly tool that should have come with your new rifle and check the firing pin protrusion for the correct extension?

It could be that the firing pin is out to much since you do say in your posting that you took it apart?

Just a suggestion to check.

 

[Sunray]

Screams extractor issue to me too. It may be worn just enough to miss the cartridge as it comes out of the mag. Might be that bit of looseness mentioned on Surplusrifles. I'd replace it. http://www.surplusrifle.com/finnishmosin/boltdisassembly/index.asp
Not exactly inexpensive things though. Gunparts wants $20.45 for one. Part #291580. They have 'em in stock too.

 

[clark500]

Thanks for the suggestion on the firing pin and the info on the extractor. I did check the pin when I reassembled. Also, Tennessee Gun Parts has extractors cheaper than Numrich & they only charge $2 shipping.

Well, I tried it the cleaning suggestion today. Imagine my surprise when the bolt still refused to close. I said a few choice words, smashed my cordless drill against the wall and sat in the corner to cry it off. Then I ate a bag of cookies to console myself. So, today's grand total: 4 hours of my time, a cordless drill, half of my sanity and 4 bucks for a bag of cookies. All that and still no joy. Wait, I can already imagine the next post... "You obviously didn't clean it the RIGHT way. Did you chant COS-MO-LINE, COS-MO-LINE while you were cleaning?" Seriously, if anybody has any suggestions that don't include cleaning, I would love to hear them. Otherwise, I think I'm gonna just order a new extractor.

 

[gb6491]

The Mosin Nagant is a push feed weapon. The cartridge is pushed ahead of the bolt when chambering; the extractor does not engage the rim until you close the bolt completely. That said, the MN likes a little rough handling; try giving it a little more muscle, no disrespect intended here, they can just be that stubborn. What would seem excessive on other rifles is gentle handling to the MN. Some can be a real bear to open after firing.
You can get good, relatively inexpensive, head space gauges here (I went with just the "Field" gauge):
http://www.okiegauges.com/
Pretty good dis-assembly page:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinDisassembly.htm
Regards,
Greg

 

[rmfnla]

Check the extractor cut-out in the barrel for crud. If something is caked in there it will not allow the extractor to travel enough to slip over the rim.

gb6491 - Hard opening after firing can be an indication of excessive headspace causing setback; worth checking into.

 

[gb6491]

gb6491 - Hard opening after firing can be an indication of excessive headspace causing setback; worth checking into.

Yes, thanks for the reminder; it's one the reasons I purchased gauges from the link I posted above.
Regards,
Greg

 

[Cosmoline]

If the extractor is working properly you should be able to chamber anyway you want--either by stripping the round off from the magazine or by closing over the round already in the chamber.

 

[clark500]

Final update… I checked many posts in several forums before I asked for help on this subject. Unfortunately, none of the posts I found ended with a solution. They all just sort of left me hanging. I had hoped that I could isolate a bad part so that I could share my solution with others, but it seems that I too must leave everybody hanging. So for what it’s worth, here is how I “solved” my problem… I picked up a set of Okie headspace gauges (great product at a great price) and checked the headspace on both my M44 and 91/30. They both checked good with go & no-go gauges (never needed to get to the field gauge). I then swapped the bolt head and guide rod assembly between bolts. I again checked headspace and again both checked good with go & no-go gauges. At this point, both rifles will now cycle flawlessly (even without truly “changing” any parts). I am happy albeit still a little mystified.