help suggest my first load

[nra-for-life]

hi everyone,

over the past month or so i have been buying all my reloading gear, and i believe im ready to get going on my first load.

for my first attempt at this im going to load some 223 and some 22-250

the 22-250 will be neck sized, (the brass was fired out of the specific rifle it will go back into) and is for a savage axis (1-12 twist rate)

the 223 will be shot out of an mp ar15 and i will full length size it, (1-9 twist)

i have caliber specific reloading books for both calibers and the lyman 49th, but before i go off ordering primers, powders, and bullets, id like to get some opinions on the loads that might be the most accurate. what bullet weights and styles should i be looking at?? the main goal for now is just to punch paper and produce small groups for now. how does one go about picking a starting point for load developement...there are just soo many options. my main goal here is pure accuracy for long distance. thanks

 

[rcmodel]

My #1 suggestion is do not cheap out on bullets if accuracy is your goal.

Many folks buy a $1,000 rifle and $500 dollar scope then can't figure out why it won't shoot cheap FMJ bullets in one hole.
The reason is, FMJ bullets are the least accurate bullets made by anyone anywhere.

I'd strongly suggest you at least try some 60 grain Hornady V-Max or Nosler Ballistic-Tips or any brand of HP match bullets in both rifles.
With whatever cases, powder, & primers floats your boat.

Good bullets are what makes the most differance..

rc

 

[quartermaster]

new to handloading

I totally agree with rcmodel.

Half the fun of being a handloader is working up your loads. I could give you my recipes, but it may not work in any of your rifles. I have more reloading manuals than I care to admit to and still when working up loads go online and check out what other people think. You can't trust most of the folks on some sites, But one thing that you will discover is that everyone shoots 1/4" to 3/8" groups if not 10 shots in one hole! I do subscribe annually to Load Data which has a multitude of different loads for pretty much anything you could want. It's only like $29/year if my memory serves me correctly and worth every cent.

Don't hesitate to call any of the tech guys from reloading tool or bullet manufacturers. They can be very helpful and always willing to help.

Enjoy your new hobby. Don't be in too much of a hurry

 

[ridgerunner1965]

premium bullets do shoot good.but how good do yu need them to shoot?if you are hunting the diff between a .5 inch group and a 1.5 inch group at 100yrds aint going to mean much at 250yrds. you will still be easily in the kill zone,if your jus punching paper and want the best accuracy they are great. for hunting i jus go with hornady

 

[Stack]

My favorite accuracy bullet for 223 is 69 grain Sierra or 68 grain Hornady OTM's in my 1 in 9"16" bbl. I'm .015 off the lands and use the Sierra accuracy load plus .2 grains. I also get good results from the 75 grain Hornady OTM's as well. Never a keyhole. Primers used with a given load sometimes have very different effects on extreme spread velocity wise. I try a couple brands with each trip through the chrono. Fave 223 powders are Varget and Reloader 15 but H-322 is more popular with my friends. I like LC brass or Lapua but I hate paying the price for the Lapua. Surprisingly Midway's 55 grain dog Town soft point spitzers hold a very nice group on a calm day and they're cheap too! At 200 yards I shoot cheap soda pop so I can tell if I hit without a spotting scope so the dog towns are fun because they make the can explode. Cheap fun practice to me.

 

[James2]

the 22-250 will be neck sized, (the brass was fired out of the specific rifle it will go back into) and is for a savage axis (1-12 twist rate)

This sometimes works well and sometimes not. After sizing the neck and before loading, try them in the rifle to make sure they will chamber OK. It is a frustration to get them loaded then find they are too tight.

The only 22 cal I reload for is a 222 Rem. I have shot many rounds of Hornady 55 Grain spire points. They always seemed more accurate than lighter bullets. I think rc hit it right on for the 22-250 with the 60 gr bullet.

Perhaps Varget would be a good powder for either?

Primers? I have used all brands, but buy mostly CCI because that is what is often on the shelf. They all work.

Have fun.

 

[capreppy]

+1 for the Nosler 60gr Varmint BTBT. I've been able to shoot 1/3 MOA consistently with these at 100 & 200 yards (longest I have readily available to me).

For plinking and trigger time, I use Hornady 55gr SP or Midsouth Shooters 55gr Varmint Nightmare (Hornady seconds, 2k for $162). My rifle will shoot these at MOA or better consistently.

I have tried the Sierra 69gr MatchKings, but need to find a good powder combination.

 

[James2]

how does one go about picking a starting point for load developement..

Most manals give a starting load and a max load. The starting load is just that. Start there.

Some data only gives one charge. I would back off ten percent and start there.

After you fire some of your start loads, you always look for signs of over-pressure. If none are found and you want to try shooting them a little faster, bump the load up some for the next batch. Always check for signs of over-pressure.

You need to remember that all rifles are different. Some will shoot a hot load just fine, but in another rifle it would be too hot. That is why we always start a little low and work up.

The fastest load is not always the most accurate.
Try different loads until you get what you want. This is one of the pleasurable parts of reloading. Finding that sweet spot.

In loading for my 222 Rem, I like a good combo of velocity, accuracy, and economy.

The faster powders give the best economy, but usually the slower powders give the best velocity. Of course it costs a bit more because you will use more per load. (Assuming of course the cost per pound is about the same.)

Keep records. I know its hard to remember all the particulars of a load next year.

 

[StandingTall]

I also own an m&p 15 and use a Berry's 55gr FMJBT with 24.2 grains of H335 and CCI #400 primers. I don't hunt with my m&p and use this for punching holes in targets.

 

[Hondo 60]

For your AR:

Armscor 55 gr BT-FMJ
26.0 gr of Varget
OAL 2.230

My AR has a 20" 1 in 9 barrel & that load is just awesome for me.

 

[nra-for-life]

Primers? I have used all brands, but buy mostly CCI because that is what is often on the shelf. They all work.

okay when it comes to primers, do i need to use the exact primer listed in the load data? or will any primer do if it is the same size and mag/non mag? every different bullet or powder manufacturer seems to use a different primer so for each different load i will need different primers? how important is it to use the same primer listed in the data?

 

[nra-for-life]

I'd strongly suggest you at least try some 60 grain Hornady V-Max or Nosler Ballistic-Tips or any brand of HP match bullets in both rifles.

can someone please explain to me what, if any, the relationship between rifle twist rate and bullet weight is??? (in laymens terms) this might be an erroneous observation, but it seems like a lot of people with higher rates of twist seem to get better results with lighter bullets and visa versa.

 

[beatledog7]

Twist rate is how tight the rifling is inside the bore. A rate of 1:9 means the bullet gets one full twist in nine inches of barrel run. The lower the ratio, the more twist, but the low number is first, so you have to think backwards. A high rate of twist is 1:7. A low rate might be 1:12.

It's not really about weight but about how much length of bullet touches the rifling. Weight is just easier to categorize because bullets and finished ammo are sold that way. Heavier bullets tend to be longer, so usually with heavier bullets more of the bullet's length is in contact with the bore, thus it takes a faster twist to overcome plain old friction and get it spinning.

My own .223 has a rate of 1:9, which means roughly I can be assured adequate twist to stabilize bullets of up to about 70 grains, but not because they weigh 70 grains, because they're long. This is not an exact science, just a rule of thumb.

If I got that wrong, someone will correct it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For the .223 I have two loads. My AR load is 25.0gr H335 under a 55gr bullet. That load also works well in my bolt rifle but i like 26.0gr Varget under the same bullet a little better.

 

[P-32]

OK. lets talk about primers a bit.

okay when it comes to primers, do i need to use the exact primer listed in the load data? or will any primer do if it is the same size and mag/non mag? every different bullet or powder manufacturer seems to use a different primer so for each different load i will need different primers? how important is it to use the same primer listed in the data?

A good question for sure. The rule is you should work up your load when using a different powder lot number. Same with changing primers. Today the powder and same primer rule has fallen because we have little change in powder or same primers. For 223, I use Remington 7 1/2's. There is little data using these primers. I use them because 1. they work and 2. they seem to be hard enough to with stand a free floating firing pin found in the AR.

Not so long ago these primers was pretty hard to find. And when you did some shops, not all of them jacked prices up pretty high. So I had to switch to CCI small rifle Bench rest primers. I worked up the load using the CCI's. (Off the record I will say the difference between the two was small but check for your self.) Match primers could be Mag. strengh. Using a Mag primer with a load which is already at the ragged edge could put you over and be just enough extra to damage the firearm. This is why we work back up. For Federal and Winchester primers, I don't use these in any rifle with a free floating firing pin. Older Winchester primers were better. Federal Primers are found to have been used in most slam fires I've read about or told about. This is because they are too soft.

A slam fire is a round going off before the bolt is completely closed. If you are not hurt by this you still end up with a bag of parts. Free floating firing pins hit the primer as the bolt closes. If you chamber a round by letting the bolt fly and then eject the round, you will see what we call a "dimple" in the primer from the firing pin. Get a high primer and you are done. Always check your primers to make sure ther are no high ones and hopefully before powdering them.

CCI makes GI style primers, both large and small rifle. I Have not tried these yet. Standard CCI's seem to stand up to the firing pin abuse. Another thing is a different primer could change group size. When working up loads It includes primers. Again the CCI's seem to win most of the time.

I will admit I've seen group sizes go down using Federal match primers in a bolt gun. They are good primers for a bolt gun. By the way, it's hard to beat Varget in the bullet weights you will be using. For bolt guns use the primer you want.

 

[nra-for-life]

hey p32, thanks for the input...actually i was thinking of getting varget as my first powder, just because there was soo much data available for it with different bullets for both the 223 and 22-250.

was looking at this... http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html and was thinking of getting cci br primers but because the results didnt seem to show much improvement maybe ill just save the money and get regular cci primers. (not that this is THE defeinitive test, but it is something to consider.)

so im curious as to what you all might think about starting bullets? rc said get quality...v max or nosler bt. i have no problem spending some extra on bullets especially if it will help shrink group sizes. seesm like sierras (matchkings) have a really good rep for accuracy and also the lapua scenars seem to be regarded as highly accurate...? any opinions on this?like i said for right now im trying to just punch paper, not hunt, so whatever gets my small groups on paper is what i want to go for. i do know that matchkings are not recomended for hunting, i would assume the scenars are probably the same.