Help understanding M1 Carbine

[Vonderek]

Not sure I believe the long range/Korean winter jacket theory. How is that possibly quantifiable? During the stress of combat how at 200+ yards did the shooter know he didn't simply just miss his intended target? Were there spotters marking distance and observing hits? Did GIs interview wounded Koreans post-battle? I think this theory is either an answer to poor marksmanship under stress or peripheral through-and -through hits on bulky clothing worn by slightly built Asians. However, I wasn't there so my suppositions are just that.

 

[loadedround]

I carried and used an M2 Carbine in '62 and it worked for me. Enough said.

 

[Will Fennell]

Personal Defense Weapon

Think of the M1 Carbine as the original PDW. More than a sidearm, less than a rifle. I think I would rather have a M1 Carbine than some of the current PDW's, like the FN whatever it is that fires the little 5.7 cartridge.

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

A friend of mine’s father was medic in Vietnam. He told the story about a kid who had been sprayed across the back with an M2 carbine. He said the bullets were just under the surface of his skin and could be popped out just like popping a zit. No idea what range this happened at but it does not inspire confidence in the cartridge.

A recent issue of Shotgun News had an article about this weapon written by Peter Kokalis. Kokalis said that the mistake people make when discussing the .30 carbine cartridge is that they often compare it to rifle cartridges instead pistol cartridges as they should.

 

[DFW1911]

Kokalis said that the mistake people make when discussing the .30 carbine cartridge is that they often compare it to rifle cartridges instead pistol cartridges as they should.

That makes a lot of sense and certainly would contribute to the bad PR it's received as a defensive round.

Also, I found an interesting article on this - it's a bit long so I'll just post the URL:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-74033105.html

Thanks,
DFW1911

 

[kBob]

Mike,

Well stitched would indicate not to very distant.

Back? As in through whatever load was being humped and the back of an M1967 or M1950 armored vest?

EVERYONE,

I suppose a hefty portion of my THR post have been on clairifying the .30 Carbine thing.

Marshal and Sanow have a fair number of single round stops with the FMJ .30 Carbine.....and 79% of all reported numbers ain't that bad. A good bit better than either the 9x19mm or .45 ACP from handguns.

ANyone here feel particullarly unarmed with a 9x19mm or .45ACP on the street even in FMJ format?

Oh yes and shots from an M-1 carbine with FMJ are reported as being pretty much all completely through the victims M&S have numbers on.

Guess what? SP or HP .30 Carbine rounds up the anty into the same range as better HP loads in the 9 or .45 from a handgun.

Now I know we have some silly-wet shooters on here that can stand on their hind feet and wack a mole out past Ft. Mudge with a handgun, maybe even a small handgun. ANd there are more of us that are minute of gallon milk jug at 100yards with a service pistol from the role over prone. But most folks aint like that. Truth be told if we of the Handgun Appreaciation and Bragging Socioty (HA!BS) were told to do these in a hurry and under stress we could not. But we and Joe Average may well be able to be minute of milk jug out to a bit beyound 100 meters with an M-1 Carbine when in a hurry, at least.

Given that in one recent six year period no police sniper made a shot beyound 76 meters one wonders how Joe Average is going to justify shooting beyond 100 meters in self defense.

My experience (let's see I got my first M-1 Carbine 39 years ago) has been that most folks find it pleasant to shoot and have no trouble handling it. Few find it as bother some noise or even recoil wise as most .223/5.55 semi autos.

I find folks can make very fast accurate enough repeat shots with a M-1Carbine.

In my experience and this is subjective I find the M-1 Carbine far less brutal to me when shooting it inside a trailor for instance than "heavier" rifles and rather imagine my wife would either.....someone abandoned the trailer on a friend's property. So I image someone not experienced with shooting in a house might not be as overwhelmed by the blast with the Carbine.

Look, for folks that want a firearm capable of atleast a 3 out of four chance of working defensively with a single shot of the "wimpiest" of its ammo choices and one that increaes hit potental over a handgun and one that provides easy repeat shots, the M-1 Carbine is just fine.

There is a lot of chatter on THR about 9x19mm, .40, and .45ACP "carbines", from hi-point to Barfetta and eveything in between. Given a choice of any of those or an .30 US M-1 Carbine as a Home defense gun or as a Katrina, LA riots, or SHTF paciifier I will pick the US GI M-1 Carbine over any of them.

The M-1 Carbine is not a "Battle Rifle" Or and "Assault RIfle" or a tricked out SKS. It ain't bad for what it is though and better than those for some uses.

kBob has Spoken......again....and to long windedly....yet again.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

kBob,

I don’t have a lot of specific details and don’t have dog in this fight. In my mind US Ordinance must have tested the thing before it was adopted so it must be an effective cartridge.

 

[Baba Louie]

Very effective when compared to a .38 spl fired from a S&W M&P/Victory revolver or a .45 acp when fired from an M1911/A1 which was it's intended use (as others note), for medicos, band members, clerks and cooks, etc.
Audie Murphy seemd to like it for combat in towns and close woods (or one of his friends in his book To Hell and Back so commented), but his "lucky carbine" wasn't as lucky for others. (I gather Murphy was a dead shot and a fast shot)
Others however seem to not like it as much or ask too much of the cartridge.

Physics is physics, a miss is a miss and an M1 Carbine is not an M1 Garand nor is it a 1911. But it is a lot of fun and has been known to come to the aid and defense of them what knows it, it's limitations and has practiced shooting it a bit.

Put a bayonet on the end of it and it's sooo cute, looking all fierce and such.
I suppose even little dogs can bite if ya get too close.

 

[kludge]

There is a lot of chatter on THR about 9x19mm, .40, and .45ACP "carbines", from hi-point to Barfetta and eveything in between. Given a choice of any of those or an .30 US M-1 Carbine as a Home defense gun ... I will pick the US GI M-1 Carbine over any of them.

+1. And a lot less noise that M193.

.30 carbine @ 100 yds ~= .357 @ muzzle

 

[mljdeckard]

I DO have one next to my bed. It's my wife's primary.

The one I have is my grandfather's old Inland, I wouldn't mind getting another so that I won't mind beating it up a little or cry if it is ever seized as evidence.

I wouldn't use it for deer, but my dad killed two mulies with it.

I have said in here many times, this is the round for whom the 5.56 is too much, but the 9mm is too little. While (IF THE CORRECT AMMO IS USED) the AR works for HD, certainly for my wife, the .30 carbine is better. Petite, easy to shoot, reliable, QUIETER, and the round is certainly potent enough.

 

[Ignition Override]

DFW1911:

Perfect timimg!
Your column here might be the answer to my (gun) prayers. And let's hope that it is quite informative for you.

For many years my only gun was an ancient Savage .22 bolt-action rifle.
Three months ago I bought the Auto-Ordnance M-1 and had a place to shoot some 'fun targets' My goal was to have a classic lower cost military rifle with a nice wooden stock, in order to shoot less-expensive ammo than in most rifles (i.e. M-1 Garand). And in a very rare 'survival situation', it will be clearly obvious mostly at a fairly short range whether a man is 'friend or foe'. I would reading enjoy reading real-world descriptions from Katrina civilians with 'street experience', or from elsewhere in the US, i.e. during the LA race riots. Let's be quite clear and cal them what they were.

This gun has always jammed. since I bought it...once each three-five rounds, on average, after pushing about six copper-jacketed rounds into the shorter magazine which was included for the price (the larger 30-round magazine which I bought there will almost NEVER feed into the chamber). It was cleaned and oiled after each time. The only ammo is the store-bought Remington (now it has gone from $20 to about $24 per box of fifty). Experienced hunters have told me to get a new magazine spring etc. After I dropped it off with the local gunsmith, he instinctively suggested "a hotter load". My only real experience is with the old .22. No semi-automatics-none at all. Where does one buy a hotter load which is reliable and at about the same price.

My original goal was to buy an M-1 Garand but the cost of the rifle and ammo could not be justified. Same with the Belgian FN FAL or classic M-14. I do not hunt.

None of this constant jamming will ever really matter to me unless a harsh 'survival situation' is the case. i.e. earthquake, race riot etc.

Mr Humphrey's comments were as 'real world' as you can get about stopping ability.
But a larger rifle with a more powerful bullet does me no good if I can not hit the target, and have little reaction time in a civilian setting.

In an extremely rare situation, hitting it at all might be the only important thing that counts, before it can hit me.

 

[Oohrah]

Vern and a few others are right, when using FMJ bullets, it is an iffy
stopper. I have seen results of expanding, hollowpoint, and half jacket
bullets that make it a very good stopper. It fact it may be even better
than the light bulleted 357 mag, as velocities are elevated to near 2000fps
at the muzzle, with the 100 gr Hornady half jackets are impressive. Like
the Garand, this semi auto is not to be souped up, or it will batter parts
and op rods.

 

[USSR]

Ignition Override,

Sorry to hear of your "jam" problem, but this is the chance you take with a non-USGI M1 Carbine. Carbine ammo is loaded with either a 110gr FMJ, HP, or SP bullet, and there is no "hotter" loading of it. There are 2 things you might try: 1. buy a USGI 15 round magazine; and 2. try spraying your bolt liberally with automotive brake cleaner.

Don

 

[DFW1911]

Ignition Override,

I know prices are rising, but you may want to try a variety of ammo - especially FMJ and various RNSP. Same things with magazines: a Google search will give you plenty of results. Some of the places will even have ratings by their mags.

Lastly you may have to ship it back to Auto Ordnance for them to look at it.

Good luck!
DFW1911

 

[ldp4570]

The Grand Carbine

I for one love the little M1 Carbine. Light, accurate, mild in recoil. Ballistics are more than enough at 150yds or less to handle most SD/HD situations, and as far as used for hunting, as long as you can put it where it needs to go it will put meat on the table. Of course it needs SP or HP bullets to get optimum performance, but that applies to all types of ammuntion. I don't know to many folks who are going to go out into the field with their 30-30, 30-06, 223/5.56, .308 loaded with non-expanding ammo to hunt with.

So lets stop bashing the little carbine, she is nothing more than a diamond in the rough. Has proved herself around the world, and is still as viable today as she was at her birth..

 

[Kurac]

My 63 year old Inland never jambs with WWII surplus magazines and some of them are a little banged up.

The commercial magazines are almost useless since they don't have heat treated feed lips.