help with an anti-gun assignment

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skinnyguy

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A friend of mine attends a "left-wing" college, and in one of his classes, they will be showing the movie "Bowling for Columbine" and he is looking to find out the mistruths, lies, misinformation, and other B.S. that this movie contains to minimize the damage done to the less intelligent people in his class.

If you good people know of any particulars, or can direct me to a website or three that can address those lies, it would be most appreciated!!!
 
I'd focus in particular on what Moore did to Heston. Absolutely reprehensible.

That, and anything in the movie having to do with the NRA. If your friend is prepared, he can show Moore for the lying sack of dung that he is. That website above is an excellent resource. There used to be www.bowlingfortruth.com, but it seems to be defunct. Too bad, it was a great site.
 
I'd focus in particular on what Moore did to Heston. Absolutely reprehensible.

I couldn't believe when he said that America more than any other country has the highest murder rate with guns .. WHAT?!
 
Oh man that's rough!

I'd have to skip that class and go to the range that day.

The fact is no matter how many facts your friend spouts off most of the students who already don't have any interest in guns will be brainwashed anyway. Who are they going to believe? Your friend? Or the hotshot documentary filmmaker? Remember if its in a documentary it has to be true:banghead:

If I were your friend and I did go to class I would simply speak my mind to the whole class and tell them how I really feel. I would make it known that as a responsible gun owner I find the movie offensive and one-sided. After I make statement I think that I would probably collect my things and leave, grade or no grade I would not sit through that POS movie ever again.
 
What he wants to do is go in prepared, that is why he's asking for the help in detailing what's wrong with the movie. If he can make a sensible argument rather than just holler BS during the thing, people are more likely to listen to him. If there are any fence-sitters in that class, there's a hope that he can help them decide to NOT jump over to the anti- side.

Thanks for the links and info, people!!!
 
Tell him to look around the class and find some allies who might also have a similar perspective and make sure they have some sensible things to say too.
 
If he can make a sensible argument rather than just holler BS during the thing, people are more likely to listen to him.

The trick will be trying to prove his side of the point in a more articulate and believable way than Moore presents his. Don't forget Moore is a master BS artist and even if your friend points out all the facts that are wrong in the movie he has to convince his classmates that his facts are correct and that Moore's are wrong.

I agree that he needs numbers on his side, even if one or two other people in the class will side with him he stands more of a chance. If he gets together with a few other pro-gun people in the class then maybe as a collective voice they can make a sensible argument.

Wish him luck!
 
Are there any other kind?

well, there are LESS left-wing institutions. :)


TAMU is one I can think of...I would say UT but seeing as its in a Blue city...not everyone there is a gun-hater, though. Shot some with a few guys there and had some fun up in Austin awhile back. :)


D
 
A suggestion:
It may not go over well if someone tries to win over people by using anything having to do with that day at that school. When people hear the name "Columbine," they react very strongly. If I were to approach people with a pro-gun pitch of any sort, I wouldn't want to start off by resurrecting memories of people going on a massive killing spree with guns. Let's say you knew a real mean bast**d and you were at his funeral. Even though he was horrible person and even though everyone knew it, at the services would be a bad time to start listing his flaws. One has to choose one's venue carefully, you know?
 
Actually, I've found that most people find Moore so loud and ignorant and obviously hyper-biased (which was, of course, the point) that they are willing to listn a bit. Plus, in a conversation about BfC they feel like they know what they are talking about a bit. A lot of people seem to shy away from gun conversations because tey just don't know anything.

Plus, when the subjuect of BfC comes up, it's a neat way of talking about guns without being a psycho gun freak who randomly brings it up.

Heck, just last night a classmate made a comment about Moore's newer movie, Sicko. My response was "Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing that. I'm not a real big Moore fan, mostly because I'm a bit of gun rights activist and Columbine was just so full of outright lies, but his movies are sometimes amusing, if horribly inaccurate." Conversation followed on shooting sports.
 
If you're going to watch "Bowling for Columbine", then the class should have to watch "Micheal and Me", a documentary done by Larry Elders. He very effectively dismantles all of the gun control arguments, this film was done in direct response to "Bowling for Columbine". "Micheal and Me" is the best ammo you could possibly have in this situation.
 
The movie is full of misleading editing and outright lies. There are plenty of sources that have outed Moore for his shameful manipulation of truth. However, what really gets me about the movie is that it draws no conclusion, pro or anti gun! In the end, it doesn't even make a point. That I found more bizarre than all the misstatements in the movie.

Related to this lack of a lucid conclusion is the what is NOT in the movie: the reason behind the 2nd Amendment. No where does Moore explain the unique importance of a country allowing it's regular citizens to be armed...not because of hunting or shooting sports, but because it gives the people the power to overthrow elected officials if they become tyrannical. The law of the land keeps a bad leader from disarming the people, which restricts him from abuse. It's, oh I don't know, probably the second most important right we the people have! Of course, if you need examples of why it's an important right, just look at history's most brutal "leaders" and how effective where their campaigns of death...right after they disarmed the public. There are plenty of examples before AND after the writing of the Constitution.

In any case, this right to bear arms comes with consequences. Namely, lots of guns on the streets where not everyone has the understanding and respect for firearms they should. Result...lots of gun crime.

I will take increased gun crime over a Stalin or Hitler ANY DAY. The solution to the gun crime? I say it's balanced education about all types of weapons and the importance of the 2nd Amendment along with allowing unrestricted gun ownership (including CCW) so we good citizens can protect ourselves from not only bad government but from bad people (you know, what the Constitution is supposed to ensure).
 
Hillsdale college is a conservative college. Actually REQUIERS a US history and constitution class. and the best part refuses ALL federal funding. Also was one of the first colleges in the country to accept Black People (before emancipation I forget the date).
 
Are there any other kind?

When my electronics professor found out I was selling a gun, his reaction was "D'oh! I wish I'd known sooner. I just bought a new rifle!" I'm now selling it to one of my classmates. One of the other students in that class wrote a pro-gun, pro-CCW speech for his speech class. I think he actually used the line "If students in Virginia Tech had been permitted to carry concealed firearms, there would have been far fewer deaths."

Move to western PA!
 
Yep, most colleges may be generally liberal, but plenty of gun-friendly profs. I went shooting with a prof of mine from a undergrad a couple years ago. He is not too shy about mentioning in class that he is gun-friendly either.
 

I looked that site. I looked quickly, so I may be wrong, but I would hesitate to use it to "shoot down" the movie. The author of the site makes a lot of assumptions about what the Michael Moore intended to incite in the viewer, and seems to debate trivial details.

For example, the author of the web site gets upset about a Willie Horton ad. He makes a big point about whether the add was paid for by the Bush/Quayle campaign, or just by supporter of Bush/Quayle in cahoots with the Bush/Quayle Campaign. That's just silly to my mind - the distinction between official/non-official ads is solely a way to protect funny money and get around campaign finance laws. It was pretty obviously a Bush/Quayle, regardless of the funny money games.

The author of the web site never tackles Moore's main point about Willie Horton ad - that it was racist ad calculated to play into white fears about white on black crime. I suspect the author doesn't tackle that issue because Moore (and every political analyst I have ever read) says that was exactly the point of the ad. The only difference I have ever seen is that that the Democratic analyst call it "cynical and manipulative" where the Republicans call it "clever" - but both are very clear that it was a very effective use of the race card.

I don't want to belabor that one point, but the whole site feels that way to me. It picks at the details, but doesn't really confront the issues.

As another example, the author whines on about how the NRA event in Denver was not a rally, it was a regularly scheduled meeting. Who cares?

He whines on about juxtaposing Heston's "cold dead hands" remark with weeping children. The "cold dead hands" thing has always seemed really stupid to me, but I think it's fair game.

The fact is that I didn't want a gun ban any more the day after Columbine than the day before. If the "cold dead hands" quote is a dramatic way of saying "no gun ban" - which I think it is, then it's fair game to juxtapose the weeping children with that quote. In fact, we don't believe that a gun ban would have prevented Columbine - many of us believe that a gun ban would encourage more Columbines. Michael Moore was just making that point.

If you say something as stupid as, "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands" - you should expect it to be used anywhere and everywhere.

I think that the web site mentioned above is wrong headed. If I call an ad a Bush/Quayle ad and it's really just put together by a bunch of Bush/Quayle supporters with the support of the campaign, and not actually with the official campaign money, maybe what I said wasn't strictly true. But the difference was not substantive - unless we are investigating campaign finance.

Look, I haven't seen the movie - I find Moore to be far too annoying and puerile to think of watching him him for more than ten minutes. I have seen bits of it when my son was watching it on TV.

My impression is that Moore completely understands the power of the camera. He understands two things:
  • People say stupid things all the time.
  • When you control the camera, you get to control what people don't see.

The first point is trivial - if I only show you gun owners making stupid statements, then gun owners will look stupid.

The second point is critical - the Curia figured out a long time ago that the way to control the Pope was not by lying to him. The way to control the Pope was by choosing which documents you make available to the Pope. Moore understands this.

My sense of the way to criticize the movie is on the second point not arguing about the exact date on which the KKK became a terrorist organization.

Michael doesn't show a woman grateful to have not been raped because she was carrying.

Michael doesn't show an elderly homeowner who successfully defended himself against a burglar.

The main power of the movie is what it doesn't show - point out what he doesn't show. The rest is picayune details.

Mike
 
I would

I would print of copies of that first web page, and give them to everyone in the class. Have neatly stapled copies for everyone. Not all will read it, but I guarantee at least a few will.
 
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