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Help with LNL AP seating/crimping frustration

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by strostro, Apr 9, 2008.

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  1. strostro

    strostro Member

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    Just when I think I have everything all set on the seating/crimping die, my rounds are now coming out like this:

    [​IMG]

    When I'm pulling down on the lever, I hit some resistance most of the way to the end of the pull. If I don't go any further, I get a round that is more or less to the spec I want it to be. If I push just a little harder on the lever, I get what you see in the picture.

    Thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
     
  2. Shoney

    Shoney Member

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    Your crimp die is screwed in way to far. Back it out about 6-7 turns; now place a sized, unbelled, unprimed, unpowdered case in to the "all the way up" position; turn the die down until it just contacts the case. Unscrew the bullet seater plug 6-7 turns and adjust the bullet depth to the correct OAL.

    It also apears that your die is a roll crimp die. It will be OK to use as long as the roll crimp is not applied.
     
  3. Luggernut

    Luggernut Member

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    Yeah.. looks like it's crimping before seating! LOL
     
  4. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Looks like it's time for a factory crimp die :D
     
  5. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    Well, at least you don't have to worry about the bullet jumping crimp. You could probably file the case down until it chambers. A few light taps with a hammer, if the file doesn't work. Maybe add a little lube so it'll go in smoother. Hate to waste a perfectly good cartridge.
     
  6. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Strostro, I have had my share of reloading mishaps so please don't take offense to my first post, I was attempting to be humorous in the serious realm of reloading. For the most part I don't crimp my .45 acp reloads, I just remove the flare from the case belling step.
    View attachment 76084
    The load on the left is a Nos 185 JHP charged with W-231, the one on the left is 230gr Speer Gold Dot with 8.6gr of Blue Dot, it's hard to make out but there is a slight taper crimp on the BD load.
    .45 acp head spaces on the case mouth to much crimp will mess that up.
     
  7. btefft

    btefft Member

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    Yep, your die is screwed in way too far. I have a LnL and what I did was first, seat the bullet to the depth I needed, then I backed the bullet seater way up. Then I loosened the bushing, and raised up the case again. When I see the bushing rise a tiny bit, I know I'm on the mouth of the case. At this point lower the round, which drops the die back down, and snug up the lock nut on the die.

    Be sure to check COL. This worked for me.

    Hope this makes sense.

    Hack
     
  8. DEDON45

    DEDON45 Member

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    Way too much crimp; I would suggest getting a separate taper crimp die, and set your bullet seater / crimp combination die to just seat the bullet. If you still have a problem, you may not have enough flare to seat the bullet (I don't think that's the case)... don't sweat it, dealing with these pistol cartridges that headspace on the case mouth can be a pain 'til you get it down.
     
  9. Waldog

    Waldog Member

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    An easy way to adjust bullet seat dies using live factory round:
    1. Factory round in shell holder with ram all the way to the top.
    2. Make sure bullet seating stem is un-screwed until it is held by about 2 threads. Make sure you have the applicable bullet seat in place, i.e., round nose or semi.
    3. Screw the die body down on the factory case until you just feel a SLIGHT resistance. Back die OUT about 1/8 turn.
    4. Lock die body in place on the press.
    5. Screw bullet seat stem IN until you feel a slight resistance. Lock bullet seat stem in place on the die.
    6. Now try to seat a bullet in a resized case and check case length with calipers and adjust accordingly.
    7. Use TAPER Crimp die to finish
    You can get within a "couple of thousands in length" this way and makes adjusting a new die/bullet combination quick and easy
     
  10. strostro

    strostro Member

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    Thanks for all the tips, guys and gals. I'll give your suggestions a try and see if I can resolve the problem.

    From everything I've read, it sounds like it would be easier to make adjustments separating the seating and crimping into two steps.
     
  11. DaveInFloweryBranchGA

    DaveInFloweryBranchGA Member

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    Yup, very definitely a die adjustment problem and not the press.

    Dave
     
  12. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    If I understand your statement, you're just trying to adjust the die body and take the seater along with it. You've got to do it in two separate steps.

    See the post above about using a factory round. If the bullet is the same (or close) or yours, it will be a good start.
     
  13. strostro

    strostro Member

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    Redneck2--what I meant about separating was that maybe I should use separate dies for seating and crimping vs. using the combo die I have now. I've seen more than a few people suggest that in other posts because it's easier to manipulate them separately.
     
  14. joneb

    joneb Member

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    If you have two combo dies you can adjust one to seat and one to crimp, with some bullets I use the seater/crimp die to seat only and readjust to crimp only. This ads a extra step but sometimes it's worth it.
     
  15. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Strostro,

    I load for about ten different pistol cartridges that headspace on the case mouth, and on all of them I seat the bullet and remove any case belling in one step with the bullet seating die. This is true for at least four different brands of dies I use. I have never found any need to seat the bullet and remove belling (if any) in two steps. Never found much use in solving a problem that did not exist.

    I do not mean any personal disrespect to you in any way, but it would seem that you may be somewhat new to reloading, and I see that you are using a Hornady L&L machine. If my assumption is correct that you are new to reloading, it would support a point I often cite that folks new to reloading should begin with a single stage press rather than a much more complicated progressive. This whole idea of adjusting a seating die is basic to reloading, and I would think most people would learn how to do it much easier by starting with a simple press and doing one function at a time.

    In any case, your Hornady L&L is a fine machine and will last for many years with care and consideration. All of us make mistakes as we learn, experience helps us keep from making mistakes that can harm us.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  16. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Hi David, Have you tried seating a soft lead hollow point with a healthy taper crimp for a slow powder ?
     
  17. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Jibjab,

    I'm not sure I understand your question. When you are talking about a soft lead hollow point, I assume you mean a jacketed hollow point bullet. If that is the case, yes, I do use jacketed hollow points as well as cast bullets. I do not, however, find a need for a taper crimp or any crimp in any of my auto loading pistols. I always full length size my brass, and that is enough to keep the bullet from moving in the case when feeding or under recoil while in the magazine. I also find this to be true for my 10MM Megastar pistol loads. If your bullets do not move under recoil or when feeding, there is no need for any crimp. I was never one to try to solve a problem if I did not have a problem from the start.

    As far as powders go, I used to like to use Bullseye because you could get more loads per pound than a slower powder. Somewhere along the way, however, I started finding some advantages to using slower powders, and for 9MM I have used Unique as well as Blue Dot. One advantage of using slower powders, especially with progressive reloaders, is that you will not make a mistake of dropping a double charge without seeing it clearly.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  18. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Sorry Dave I'm up way past my bed time,
    I've loaded Nosler 185gr JHPs with Blue Dot and a good taper crimp helped this load burn cleaner, but when I tried to seat and crimp in one step the bullet nose was deforming so I seated and crimped in two steps.
    I find this to be the same with soft nose hollow points for revolver. It's not just about the cartridge OAL, I'm trying to get a consistent load density.
     
  19. strostro

    strostro Member

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    I wish I was new to reloading, because it would make me feel better about about the challenges getting this press setup. :)

    I recently converted from a Dillon Square Deal B after ten years of use to the Hornady LNL, so I'm just trying to work out the quirks with this new system. They are a bit different, and frankly, I never had this much trouble getting the Dillon setup up. That said, I think that the LNL AP is a much better built press and I just have to work out the kinks. I'll keep at it until I get it right.
     
  20. DaveInFloweryBranchGA

    DaveInFloweryBranchGA Member

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    Strostro,

    Hang in there bud. The two machines you mention are quite a bit different, but one always has a learning curve on a machine. Once you get it down, you tend to forget the small things that aggravated you at the start. You'll get a handle on the die adjustment soon enough and be rocking/rolling.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  21. DEDON45

    DEDON45 Member

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    Don't feel bad Strostro, I used to reload a long time ago, and am getting back into it now, and having to relearn things that I used to know. You'll get it!
     
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