Captcurt
Member
This just proves what I have always stated. 50% of the teachers finish in the bottom half of their class.
Help with professor!
- Thread starter southeastshooter
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Roswell_Kid
Member
"As ArthurDent says above, its a matter of feelings and emotions to these people, not facts."
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Unfortunately, these guys hit it right on the head.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many supposedly well-read, intelligent people succumb to emotional (actually, delusional) beliefs with such dedication as to deny not only logic but the existence of empirical evidence and factual history.
Confronting these people (however reasonably and politely) with the truth never works. There is something missing from their ability to reason properly, some sort of defect. You´ll only get back arrogant multi-syllable babble driven by prideful emotion.
The sad part is that it´s your money paying his salary. Just like our politicians...
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Unfortunately, these guys hit it right on the head.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many supposedly well-read, intelligent people succumb to emotional (actually, delusional) beliefs with such dedication as to deny not only logic but the existence of empirical evidence and factual history.
Confronting these people (however reasonably and politely) with the truth never works. There is something missing from their ability to reason properly, some sort of defect. You´ll only get back arrogant multi-syllable babble driven by prideful emotion.
The sad part is that it´s your money paying his salary. Just like our politicians...
Harvard study: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
I don't know why this isn't cited more often on gun boards.
I don't know why this isn't cited more often on gun boards.
Seconded.
It's like fighting with your spouse. Even if you "win," you lose every time. The goal of going to college is to get a degree with a 4.0 average. It's a puzzle, a game of a sort, and everything you do should focus on success. It isn't about changing your professors' minds or "staying true to your ideals," or anything like that.
Choose your battles wisely.
MisterMike
Member
It seems pretty clear to me, after looking at a variety of studies, that you can make out a pretty good argument that the statistics bear out a reduction in violent crime after the enactment of CCW legislation. However, as we all know, in every public policy debate both sides trot out statistics to support their position. Some are valid, but often the study has been constructed with a predetermined result in mind. Thus, if you base any public policy argument on who has the "better" statistics, you will never win the argument.
It's better, I think, to argue the fundamental concepts underlying the right, certainly including the notion that the right to defend oneself and one's family from unlawful death is a fundamental human right.
It's better, I think, to argue the fundamental concepts underlying the right, certainly including the notion that the right to defend oneself and one's family from unlawful death is a fundamental human right.
teumessian_fox
member
One of my (left wing, fruitcake professors) was talking about dysfunctional people and gave symptoms like abusing drugs. In the same breath he said, "and owning guns." I called him on it. I said that was liberal bias and that owning guns is a right guaranteed under the Constitution. I embarrassed him and he amended his statement. I still got an 'A' for the course.
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
The problem is that you probably attend a liberal University. Most professors are strongly liberal. I too had a very similar discussion with one of my professors about gun rights. He stated in class that nobody should be allowed to have guns. You can present fact after fact, from the most legitimate sources, but it still won't change the professor's mind.
My professor's entire logic consisted of the "victims of society" (criminals) only obtaining firearms because they were either stolen from law abiding Americans, or were sold in a dark alley for $50 by some untrustworthy gun shop owner. Therefore, once you take the guns away from the law abiding Americans and close down all the gun shops, the criminals will no longer have access to firearms.
I mentioned the "war on drugs" and compared it to gun confiscation and asked him what would happen if all guns were taken away and all the guns shops closed down. Would we see any kind of drop in gun related crime? He believed we would. However, the Uniform Crime Report issued by the FBI doesn't agree with him. Stats vs. belief.
It's amazing how naive someone as highly educated as a university professor can be.
My professor's entire logic consisted of the "victims of society" (criminals) only obtaining firearms because they were either stolen from law abiding Americans, or were sold in a dark alley for $50 by some untrustworthy gun shop owner. Therefore, once you take the guns away from the law abiding Americans and close down all the gun shops, the criminals will no longer have access to firearms.
I mentioned the "war on drugs" and compared it to gun confiscation and asked him what would happen if all guns were taken away and all the guns shops closed down. Would we see any kind of drop in gun related crime? He believed we would. However, the Uniform Crime Report issued by the FBI doesn't agree with him. Stats vs. belief.
It's amazing how naive someone as highly educated as a university professor can be.
All you need is
More Guns Less Crime by John Lott
He started in the same place as you Proff.
and changed as he found the numbers for himself
www.johnlott.com
it's not the hard.
More Guns Less Crime by John Lott
He started in the same place as you Proff.
and changed as he found the numbers for himself
www.johnlott.com
it's not the hard.
stchman
Member
Instead of the OP trying to prove guns are not the reason for violence have the know-it-all professor show him why guns are bad. Also just cause is not a reason.
This would be interesting.
This would be interesting.
I have a professor who.... You have already lost if your professor does not agree with you. I had a professor once tell me during Iran Contra that a Hawk missile could not shoot down an airliner. I cited the real facts to him and he told me I was a liar because his facts came from TV during Congressional hearings.
More unintended consequences?
Don't remember where I read this or where you'd find it for verification, but I remember seeing that after England removed everyone's ability to defend themselves, daytime home invasions increased. It was reported that now the criminals knew citizens, er, subjects no longer had a viable means of SD, they'd rather face an unarmed homeowner than an alarm system, which was usually armed at night or whenever the home was empty.
Looks like a twofer-not only did they place the folks in jeopardy by removing their means of SD, the criminals adapting to the situation has meant the odds of having a direct conflict with said criminals has increased!
Don't remember where I read this or where you'd find it for verification, but I remember seeing that after England removed everyone's ability to defend themselves, daytime home invasions increased. It was reported that now the criminals knew citizens, er, subjects no longer had a viable means of SD, they'd rather face an unarmed homeowner than an alarm system, which was usually armed at night or whenever the home was empty.
Looks like a twofer-not only did they place the folks in jeopardy by removing their means of SD, the criminals adapting to the situation has meant the odds of having a direct conflict with said criminals has increased!
Nushif
Member
Ironically that can be said about any specific subculture. Including us. And including pot smokers, and including gangbangers ... you get my point?
Roswell_Kid
Member
Yes Sky, Switzerland is widely used as an example of a permissive gun ownership, low violent crime society. Nevertheless, they are fighting their own battles to retain their liberty, for example:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Parliament_rejects_tougher_gun_laws.html?cid=9126536
"Mr. Professor" is alive and well in every corner of the world. Damn the evidence! Onward, toward utopia!
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Parliament_rejects_tougher_gun_laws.html?cid=9126536
"Mr. Professor" is alive and well in every corner of the world. Damn the evidence! Onward, toward utopia!
Nushif
Member
Oh hey, I just saw that. The funny thing is, Britain being a constitutional monarchy really does have subjects.
I'm sure glad you asked this question, because there have sure been some good info provided by members, It'll take me a long time to read all this stuff. Remember when your dealing with a person that has absolutely no common sense, you,d be better off talking to your dog, he'll learn quicker.
What I've noticed over the years is that the more educated someone is the less common sense they have. I've seen it dealing with the Nuclear area of the Navy, Engineering, and from my sister who has a Doctors degree. No common sense at all, Dumb Dumb Dumb.
This is how I would handle it...
"Ultimately, regardless of statistical data out there....when there's a home invasion...and the criminals are seconds from harming you...stats mean squat. At that point, everyone becomes a believer in the 2nd amendment. The questions is ....do you want to wait until that moment to be a believer?"
"Ultimately, regardless of statistical data out there....when there's a home invasion...and the criminals are seconds from harming you...stats mean squat. At that point, everyone becomes a believer in the 2nd amendment. The questions is ....do you want to wait until that moment to be a believer?"
JTHunter
Member
southeastshooter - Try this link to the FBI's Uniform Crime reports. There is more than just guns in there but it might be useful as it is a government report (unless your prof doesn't believe the government either).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
This is the direction you should go with the argument. The burden of proof should be on him to show that banning guns reduces crime.
southeastshooter
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
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Well thanks again everyone and while I respect all of your opinions, I had to debate with him on this subject. I am always respectful even when I am pissed off 
I posted my response to his question and as soon as he replies I will let yall know the outcome and post my response here. Just in case if anyone is wondering he ran for congress in New York and he loves a good debate but, he is not unreasonable so I do not expect this to get out of hand. BTW thanks to whoever changed the thread name I kind of screwed that up
I posted my response to his question and as soon as he replies I will let yall know the outcome and post my response here. Just in case if anyone is wondering he ran for congress in New York and he loves a good debate but, he is not unreasonable so I do not expect this to get out of hand. BTW thanks to whoever changed the thread name I kind of screwed that up 
Lucky Derby
Member
NavyLCDR
member
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