Helwan Brigadier

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Kaeto

Kaeto

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I have a Helwan Brigadier (it's a license built Egyptian copy of the Beretta M1951) And I'm trying to figure out how to keep the disassembly lever from moving when drawn from the holster.

pix782283969.jpg


The disassembly lever is the one above the trigger. To disassemble the gun you pivot it forward. It pivots easily.
 
Neat pistol. I like the old Berettas and the copies. The Helwan looks well used. Is it possible the shaft on the takedown lever is too worn to stay in place and a replacement is in order? I have no idea of the internals of this firearm. Is there a missing spring or retaining clip that allows the lever to move freely? I had no luck finding a good schematic of either the Helwan or the 1951.
 
I have a Beretta model 70 .32 acp with a similar takedown lever, though it is more symmetrical in design, more arrow like. When the slide is removed the lever rotates freely. With the slide held in disassembly position the lever is spring loaded to hold in locked or unlocked position. In battery or locked back, a small amount of rotational play is available but not enough to touch the slide.

Does your Helwan lever exhibit spring tension in the disassembly position? beretta model 70.jpg
 
Nope The only thing that keeps the lever from rotating is the pressure of the barrel on it.
 
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Thanks for the Helwan post. It has been many moons since I had seen a Brigadier. It may have been in the late 1960s the American market was flooded with those. In new condition they sold for under $20 bucks. Too bad many imports were banned. Pistols like your Helwan were a bargain. Thanks for sharing.:)
 
From the picture, it looks like the lever should be restrained by the slide, and only be able to rotate fully when the half moon cut is lined up with it. Is it popping out the right and going up over the slide, or is there just so much vertical play that the slide it sneaks under the slide?

Helwans are kinda neat, but given the quality concerns with them, is this a pistol deserving of holster carry?
 
That half moon has nothing to do with disassembly. There are cutouts in the bottom of the slide right at the disassembly lever.
 
The half - moon - are you sure? It would serve no other purpose and is fairly Beretta-style for takedown?
 


See those two slots in the slide right at the rear of the barrel? The Disassembly lever rotates into that with no need to pull the slide back to the half moon.

It's near impossible to get pictures off my camera onto my computer since I had to replace the printer that had the slots for my camera's memory card.
 
Kaeto said:
Check out page 5 of the manual. See the slots on either side of the slide at the rear of the recoil spring? That's what the lever rotates into.
Click to expand...
Those are the slots for the locking block, and the lever shouldn't be able to get into them.

Since that's the problem, is it possible put a washer or o-ring round the take down latch pivot and the flat lever part to make it stand away from the frame so the flat lever can't get into the locking slot?

Alternately, could the top corner of the take down lever be bent out slightly so it can't get into the locking slot?

I imagine that the problem is that the frame is too narrow at the bottom, the rail fit too loose or the latch plate too thin. It shouldn't be able to get in where it is.

Here's a pic showing how the lever flats should be sticking up higher than the locking block slot by 1/16" or so. (You may have to zoom in to see the overlap.)
b51.jpg
 
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Bending the lever is a no-go. Gonna try to make a spacer but it can't be very thick or else the gun can't be reassembled. It has to be less than a millimeter thick.
 
If your lever is as thick as it should be, and you did try two of them, I will guess that the slide's locking block cuts were cut too deep or too wide or both. The lever should not be able to fit in those cuts. Are you able to rotate the lever while the slide is in battery? If so that's not good.
 
There are often some very thin nylon or bronze washers at the hardware store. Otherwise, a thin piece of brass with a hole drilled in it. It really depends what retains the pivot how thick you can get away with.

Another approach would be to glue a piece of beer can or even paper to the frame under the top wing of the latch. This would also serve as a washer, forcing it away from the frame and above the locking slots.

OR, you could use a torch to put a dollop of solder on the back side of the plate then file it down until it fits. They would also raise it up and be a fairly clean and permanent method.
 
There is something strange wrong with that gun, because that lever should ONLY be able to rotate when the slide is retracted to the takedown position. Then it should be able to turn into the room provided by the half-moon cut. It would be best to figure out what is out of spec first, then decide whether the gun is safe to use. If it is, the straightforward fix would seem to be to drill a hole close to the takedown lever, tap it, and put in a screw that keeps the lever from moving. It would have to be removed for takedown, but it would be positive. It would also require someone who has a drill press and can use it properly. That's probably the tough part.
 
unclenunzie said:
If your lever is as thick as it should be, and you did try two of them, I will guess that the slide's locking block cuts were cut too deep or too wide or both. The lever should not be able to fit in those cuts. Are you able to rotate the lever while the slide is in battery? If so that's not good.
Click to expand...
Drawing the gun from a holster partially rotates the lever.
 
I have to ask........

Did Mack Bolan ever have this problem in any of his first books?

I always thought they were neat pistols, that push button safety just turned me off though. I once talked to Pendleton about Mack's abilities with his brigadier. Got a laugh out of him for it.

Thanks for reminding me of the Aegyptian model, I might change something I am writing at the moment to include one.......not that the thing will ever sell, so you guys will never see it.

-kBob
 
I wonder if a different slide would work. Also was it normal to have the serial # on both the slide and the frame?
 
Kaeto said:
Nope The only thing that keeps the lever from rotating is the pressure of the barrel on it.
Click to expand...

Be sure the recoil spring is inserted correctly; if so replace it. the recoil spring should retain the disassembly lever while unholstering.

Having to shim it would be quite the comment on quality control for the Helwan, although the several of these pistols I've shot and the many I've examined in shops and at shows seemed of decent quality. Usually in the shop the reasons for they were brought in were spring replacement, or "make it shoot JHP reliably." o_O

My like of the Brigadier stems from the plastic toy version I had as a kid. A neighbor kid gave it to me for when we'd all play "army"; I had to hide it, because I was not allowed toy guns as a kid. (got to shoot the real ones when most my friends couldn't yet) I was quite the dashing soldier with that Brigadier and the M1916 holster my Dad's friend gave me.
 
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Kaeto said:
Looked the slide over carefully and it looks like the side of the slide is bowed out a little. I wonder if a gunsmith could get it back straight? If not, it looks like a new slide is in the works. Numrich has them for $70.00. Just would need to figure out which version it is second, or third.
Click to expand...
Do you really like this gun that much? If the slide is soft enough to bow out, I'd be concerned with it failing and getting hit in the face with it.
 
Sounds like a bent or otherwise out of spec slide to me. Mine won't rotate the takedown lever until the slide is at the takedown notch. I would have that thing looked over by someone who knows this model to see if it's safe to even shoot. If you need spec information from an almost new one I have a like new pistol and a micrometer. PM me if you need info, or if you decide its too messed up to fix, i can always use some parts...
 
I've got too much into it to just scrap it. I'll see what a gunsmith says about the slide. If I have to I'll get a replacement slide.
 
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