Hi-power FTE help diagnose

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SHusky57

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Took my new HP out to the range today. Accuracy was great even with the stock trigger and magazine disconnect still in place. I'm not really considering getting any trigger work becaue it's pretty durned accurate, although I kept anticipating a Glock-like reset which it doesn't have. So my only complaint with the design itself is that I would like the reset to be shorter; other than that, points and handles great and does what it's supposed to do.

One problem.... in 150 rounds I had a handful of FTE/FTF. At one point, after empyting a mag, the slide locked up and I could not pull it back. The hammer was cocked so I pointed it downrange and the gun would not fire (which I realise was because I had taken the mag out). So I put it on safe, pointed it down range and went and got a range officer. Of course, 2 minutes later when he came it pulled back just fine. I felt pretty dumb - but I figured safety first.

1) what would cause the slide to lock up?
2) what could be causing FTE?
3) would the mag disconnect affect reliability?

I think the FTF were caused by the round in front of them not ejecting all the way.
Ammunition was Remington UMC Ball and WWB HP. Jams seemed more prevalent with the UMC. I believe all the james were FTE although one might have been a stovepipe. The WWB HP only jammed once or twice, the UMC jammed probably 5-6 times.

I won't be using this as a carry pistol until it is more reliable, but I am very impressed by the look, feel, and accuracy.

My actions since I got home:
1) thorough cleaning. I bought the gun used. The gunshop I bought it from (ordered it off gunbroker) was fast and fair priced, but they really should clean their used guns. No telling how long it sat with carbon on it. I gave it a quick strip and cleaning last night before taking it out, but after the range I cleaned it thoroughly.

2) the gunsmith at the range offered a ramp job and a trigger job. I would have to wait 6 weeks, so if it doesn't improve I will consider it. But I don't think it's a feeding problem, I think it's an extraction problem. With snap caps, the last round in the mag (mag loaded with 3 snap caps) is not ejecting.... the extractor isn't even grabbing it sometimes.
3) should I see if a smith can widen the ejection port a little bit? I wonder if the small size of the ejection port is causing this?

So Reliability;
A) BHP - 150 rounds, approximately 7 jams.
B) Glock 21 and 36 - 250 rounds, 1 FTE that I suspect was caused by limpwristing.
C) Beretta PX4 - >1000 rounds, no jams.... and it was my first pistol. I sometimes wonder if I should have just stuck with it instead of getting more :p

As far as accuracy, it's basically in the reverse order.
 
Sounds like a brand new pistol. Give it a few more boxes of ammo before you consider anything. I personally don't like Remington ammo, but can't be sure that caused any problem. Clean and lube real well between outings.
If new, your pistol has absolutely NO NEED for any ramp or trigger work, don't waste your money.
 
Well, just because it's new doesn't mean there's not a problem that needs to be looked at. It sounds to me like your safety is not fitted properly. If it "starts" to engage a little it can lock the slide and block the sear/hammer releasing. (and don't let your thumb get under it when firing) If it can be returned to a factory center try to do that. Otherwise you're going to have to find a Hi Power smith which is becoming harder and harder. (Cylinder and Slide are very good on HPs) Hope you get it fixed because a Hi Power is a joy to shoot. John Browning's last contribution to mankind.
 
This range outing was familiarization and break in. I don't know how many rounds it had through it prior because I got it used.

It needed to be cleaned though. I keep my guns pristine, the previous owner did not.

Next range session, if I can find 9mm ammo anywhere, I am going to try a few different types of ammo and see if one works better than another.

Could magazines be causing FTE? I am using Mec-gar 13 rd mags because I was under the impression Mec-gar is the best.
 
do metal pistols need more break in than polymers? None of my polymers needed break in.... but I've heard of $1500 Kimber's doing the same thing (jamming until broken in).
 
New development:
With the mec-gar 13 rd mag in.... if i chamber a snap cap, then drop the mag one of the snap caps in the mag falls out. What does this mean?

Do HP Practicals take different mags from normal HPs? I noticed Browning makes two different factory mags - one labeled HP Practical the other HP?
 
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If you cleaned your chamber well you've probably fixed your FTE problem.

With the mec-gar 13 rd mag in.... if i chamber a snap cap, then drop the mag one of the snap caps in the mag falls out. What does this mean?

It usually means that when the previous round was fed, in this case a snap cap, it drug the round underneath it forward in the magazine. If the OAL is short enough it can escape capture of the magazine lips.
 
I cleaned the heck out of the chamber. Would carbon build-up cause FTE? Is there anything more potent than CLP/Remoil to scrub a gun clean?

It usually means that when the previous round was fed, in this case a snap cap, it drug the round underneath it forward in the magazine. If the OAL is short enough it can escape capture of the magazine lips.

Steve, is that just an issue with snap caps? Since I am not at the range, I am not going to experiment with live rounds; but it fed well +90% of the time I can assume the mags are fine?

And last, do metal guns need a break in period?
I'm guessing Hi-powers can be 100% reliable because otherwise the SAS wouldn't have used them for so long.

The gun is really a pleasure to shoot.... it really has character.
 
I can push the extractor in with my fingernail.

I think replacing the extractor might solve all my problems. Anyone concur?
 
If you can push the extractor in that easily, I agree: time for a new spring. I would also suggest replacing the recoil and hammer springs, since the pistol was not well-maintained by its previous owner. Wolff Springs provides them as a set very cheaply. The main spring is probably okay; they seem to be long-lived.

Cordially, Jack
 
my bad.... I can push in the extractor with my finger, not my fingernail. My mistake. I took out my wife's HK and it is the same as the BHP, and her HK has had 0 problems. So again, my mistake.

Sorry, I've been fiddling with this thing all afternoon and am trying to get it 100%....

I'm just puzzled because my Glocks and Berettas have been 100% out of the box.
It seems like my most expensive guns are the ones that have the most problems! Talk about irony.

Is there any other way to test the extractor without live ammo?
I've also read from Stephen Camp that it's not unusual for a hi-power to not eject the last round.

After cleaning and oiling this thing thoroughly, I guess I just need to take it back to the range and see what happens.

As for the snap caps falling out, I put in a FMJ behind the first chambered snap cap and it did not fall out. The FMJ's have a longer OAL than the snap caps.

Thank you for your patience at my incessant posting.... I think 1911s/BHPs have a lot more potential than Glocks and combat tupperware, but they definitely need more TLC than the tupperware.
 
Range guns tend to get little cleaning or proper lube. I never try a "new" gun until I've stripped, cleaned, and lubed them. Sounds like you've done all the right things now. I wouldn't be surprized if your next range session went 100%. You have now removed lots of variables. If you have more issues they will be easier to diagnose.
 
I haven't shot it yet, but when I used to press the mag release I had to yank the mag out.... now it falls free.

The slide moves much smoother.

It's crazy what some Breakfree Powderblast, Breakfree CLP, and Hoppes Oil can do.
 
update: 50/50 with Blazer aluminum 115 gr FMJs.

not a huge amount of shooting, but I gotta cling to my 9mil ammo until wally world gets some more in.

The gun is like new!
 
update: 50/50 with Blazer aluminum 115 gr FMJs.

not a huge amount of shooting, but I gotta cling to my 9mil ammo until wally world gets some more in.

The gun is like new!
 
If you bought this gun Used, it's late and I'm tired so my reading comprehension isn't what it should be, I would change the springs and lube it properly before deciding what needs to be worked on.

Good luck, as I've never seen a High Power that had a feeding issue, but I only own two of them and don't know too many people that carry one. High Powers were, for lack of better terminology, the Glock of their day. In fact, I find them to be much better than a Glock and would only carry my Glock in a Katrina situation because it would be sacreligeous to subject a High Power to such punishment, not that it couldn't take it.

You might want to spend some time over at Mr. Camp's site, High Powers and Handguns. Somebody over there may be able to figure out what's going on with your High Power.

BikerRN
 
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Firstly, we need to know which FTE. Is it failure to extract, or eject? Can you tell us about your gun? There are many variants of the BHP, and it would help to know what we're dealing with.

Here's how to test the extractor and its spring: Field strip the pistol. Take the slide and put a live round on the breech face, sliding it under the extractor. Shake the slide vigorously -- the round should not go anywhere. If it is truly extractor-related, there are 3 possibilities: 1) Broken extractor claw, 2)weakened extractor spring, or 3) too much gunk under the extractor, keeping it from being able to "grab" fully.

I've also read from Stephen Camp that it's not unusual for a hi-power to not eject the last round.

That's only if it is pre-MkIII. The newer ejection port shape keeps that from happening.

BHPs are usually good to go right out of the box, and honestly, they're pretty hard to screw up. I know, I had a FEG that they must have really tried to screw up, but despite frustration at its inferior materials and machining, it still ran. I've never needed a "break in" for them to be reliable -- it does make them smoother, though. You are wise not to carry it until it has gone long and hard without malfunctions. I personally require 500 rounds without a malfunction before I'll carry it.

You did say you thoroughly cleaned it. Does that mean that you field stripped it and took your time, or did you detail strip it?

It sounds like you've had luck recently, but 50 rounds isn't extensive enough to be comfortable in an "all better" verdict.
Wes
 
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