High crime, useless police

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UK police among worst in the world, says report
DAVID CRACKNELL, POLITICAL EDITOR - January 02, 2005

BRITAIN has one of the world’s most ineffective police forces and highest crime rates, according to an authoritative report to be published this week. It says the police spend too much time behind desks instead of tackling and preventing crime. The result, it says, is that crime is “a very low-risk activity for the criminalâ€.

America, France and Germany have suffered similar sharp rises in crime to Britain since the 1960s but have tackled them more effectively, the report says. British police have failed to focus on prevention of crime and zero tolerance of low-level disorder and antisocial behaviour, it claims.

The rise in crime in the UK is “so spectacular†it is “difficult to comprehendâ€, the report argues. Home Office claims that crime in Britain is falling and at “historically low levels†are false: the country is now “a seriously crime-afflicted and disintegrating societyâ€.

The damning and controversial study from Civitas, the right-of-centre think tank, is bound to provoke criticism from British police forces.

It cites official figures that show crime rising steadily over 40 years. The report says:
· Burglaries have increased more than fivefold from 72,000 in 1964 to 402,000 last year.
· There are 33 robberies of personal property for every one 40 years ago: a rise from 3,000 in 1964 to 101,000 in 2003-04.

The report concludes: “The attitude of the police towards crime and antisocial behaviour has changed radically from the principles which were laid down by the founders of the Metropolitan police in the early 19th century.

“The Peelite principles of policing put the prevention of crime as the highest priority . . . The hostility of the law enforcement establishment to the old beat policing model is a significant factor in the police force’s inability to get to grips with rising crime.â€

It adds: “England, from being a society remarkably free of crime and disorder, especially from the middle of the 19th to the middle of the 20th century, by the late 1990s had a worse record than either France, Germany or the United States.â€

The Civitas report contrasts the crime figures with police numbers. In 1921, it says, there were 57,000 police officers dealing with 103,000 crimes — two crimes per officer. In 2002-03 there were 134,000 officers dealing with 5.9m crimes — 44 per officer.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) questioned the findings. It said the authors had accepted that crime had dropped to the levels of 1981 but failed to give the police credit. Chris Fox, Acpo’s president, said the think tank’s conclusions did not “reflect the reality†of the police force’s achievements in recent years.

Cited from Sunday Times
 
For anyone who didnt spot the clue in the text, its worth noting that Civitas is a "think-tank" that closely parallels the old Tebbitite wing of the Tory Party - ie the answer to almost every problem is to get a bigger stick.

Its also worth noting that as recently as 2003 the same body was claiming that "Crime is falling because prison works", while at the same time stating that the Police are failing - as if criminals appeared in gaol magically, teleported there by a vengeful God.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/index.php?&MMN_position=7:7

Its also somewhat strange that, for all the criticism of liberals and managementspeak that appears in that site, there is few if any (I couldnt find any, there may be some buried there somewhere) criticisms of the Party responsible for a great deal of the period. I wonder why that is?
 
I am currently watching the series "Prime Suspect" starring Helen Mirren. The second episode deals with the skeletal remains of a young woman discovered in the garden of a house in a coloured neighborhood. One of the problems in investigating the possible homicide is wide spread suspicion and racial tensions between the police and the West African community. And of course, there is suspicion and racial tension in the police department between the white officers and the coloured officers.

The program seems to be high quality and realistic as it mirrors some of the problems American police have experienced in markedly different cultural neighborhoods here. I will leave it to the members of THR from the UK to comment on the accuracy and realism of "Prime Suspect".

American police found in Community Oriented Policing that the officers have to get out of their offices and out of their patrol cars and get to be known in the community. It has taken several years to accomplish this. I do know that when I worked in the small town of Avenal, CA, it was a major accomplishment to have people call the station and ask for me personally. If I wasn't working that day, very often the people would wait until I returned to work to discuss their problems.

I would be interested in hearing from the UK members if the police there are into community oriented policing, and how well they are doing in implementing it. Responses from both the police and "civilians" are appreciated.
 
Sheer numbers is one thing; percentage increase per capita is another. How much has the rate of crime increased?
 
Since when do police anywhere prevent crime?

And therein lies the problem.

Admittedly, police can prevent crimes of repeat offenders by catching them early on, but there is nothing any police can realistically do to prevent a specific crime before it happens unless they happen to be walking by as it happens.
 
Since when do police anywhere prevent crime?
In Albuquerque, they go on strike. I'm NOT joking, there was a Police strike several years back and crime DROPPED. Why? Maybe because the local news media reported widely on how many citizens were prepared to protect themselves since they couldn't call the cops. Of course, this little lesson was ingnored.
 
SMLE, my memory has it that it was Santa Fe, some 20 or more years back. The police by law could not go on strike, so they called in sick. "Blue Flu". (Issues of pay and suchlike.)

The burglary rate fell toward zero. A reporter got an LEO buddy to set up an interview with a "professional" burglar, to determine the why of reduced burglaries.

The burglar explained (a near quote), "The police will only arrest you. One of those homeowners will kill you."

All over Santa Fe, retirees were sitting on front porches with shotguns, and other folks around town were very watchful and ready to call for armed help.

Numbers of police are a money-allocation issue with local governments. If there are enough policemen to have walking patrolling in higher-crime areas, crime is reduced. When the beat cop is put into a car, he cannot then be as acquainted with the residents of a neighborhood, nor be as influential on the petty bad guys in the time-immemorial "...but Officer O'Reilly might see us!" Mobility does not necessarily equal efficiency...

Art
 
Remember boys and girls, the police are not in existence (in any country, including England and the U.S.) to protect people -- they are there to defend the power structure of society. Any solving of crimes or protection of citizens is an occasional side effect of their real purpose.
 
I bet over 90% of the people in America don't know that in no way are the police obligated to protect an individual citizen. A very good book to get and read on this subject is By Richard W. Stevens "Dial 911 and Die" It takes every state in the country and give cases were people thought the police had the duty to protect them. A very good book for the sheep who think they can count on the police to protect them. The police their duty is with the public at large you by yourself sink or swim on your own
 
I, for one, don't want more police. I want the politicians to get off the gun ban wagon and taking away our right of self defense.

Police, for the most part, are hard working, honest, and really do want to help people (yes, I did say that, it's not a dream :D ) but they can't be everywhere at once.

The people, here and in other countries, need to wake up and smell the gun oil, that they and only they are their best security and "police" department. (police put in " " because I couldn't think of a better term for people policing themselves).

Wayne
 
I don't think anyone should be attributing this crime problem completely to cultural policies. Contributing factors also include a balance of resources and population. Tea and crackers only stretch so far for them.

They are but a canary on this coal mine we call Earth. What they're experiencing is indicative of the route all humanity will probably take. Read what happened to Rapa Nui . England may not be such a totally closed and isolated system, but this planet certainly is.

We are currently better off due to our policies, relative abundance of resources, and lower population densities (except in our large cities). I doubt that will hold up forever.

(Hope you guys haven't locked this yet ;))
 
Get this response often??

I've been trying to convice my mom to get a gun and take classes. My parents are a criminal's wet dream. Rich, no alarm system, no vicious dogs, and a 4-10 with a gun lock (whose key is on the other side of the house). And the only asset they have (a 6'5", 385lb homeowner) just got promoted and will be out of town very often from now on.

While trying to convince my mom, I told her that the police have no legal obligation to protect her in any way. She laughed at me. I sent her some links on the web.

She stopped laughing. One step closer...


(On the upside, my (14 yr old) brother takes trips to the range with me when I visit... another gun enthusiast in the making. :cool: )
 
Enerum - I've hit the same thing

or close to it.
The usual question is -
Why do you think you (or I) need a gun ?
Answer - better to have it and not need it than
the other way around.
Have also used - Ever make a claim on your homeowners
insurance ?
No.
Then cancel it, think of the money you'll save.
NOOOOOO !!!!
What the difference ??
Carry a spare tire ?? Why ??
Have a fire extingusher ?? Why ??
It's simply called being prepared (Yes I was Scout LONG ago)
There are evil people in the world that don't care if
you are a good person, or are elderly, or NEED the money
in your pocket to buy food, etc.
They want what you have and will hurt/kill you to get it
and THEY DON'T CARE about your life AT ALL
no matter how nice you may be toward them.
 
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