His and Hers firearms question

[ahriman]

First off, I realize this type of question can sometimes kick off a flame war on some boards. I promise, that's not my intent. This is an honest question.

The info: us
I'm 6'6", big hands, left handed, 350lbs. She's 5'6", right handed, smaller hands, and she can't see 350lbs from where she is. We live near Los Angeles, in the land of 10 round magazines.

We're looking at a disaster-preparedness stuff, including picking up a few home defense type firearms. We're trying to stick to common police caliber (in case the stuff REALLY hits the fan and we're scavenging ammo from empty cop cars or the local pd needs some ammo to get us out of danger) We're also both engineers, and appreciate efficiency, simplicity, etc...

The info: weapons
We're still in the "look around and try a bunch at rental ranges" stage. I recently came across information online about the Beretta Px4 and Cx4. We like the idea that the weapons can be set up for left/right handedness, that the grip size is adjustable, that it comes in 9mm,.40, and .45, that having duplicate firearms means similar parts, fit and feel, maintenance, etc... and that we'll only have to maintain one or two types of magazines and ammunition depending on what size round we each feel comfortable with. I also have to admit the nerd in me likes polymer weapons.

The question
so that I can do some "due diligence" before plunking down serious coin on a couple of pistols and maybe a couple of longer guns, can you suggest any competing product lines that come in 9/.40/.45, are bi-handedness, where the rifle and the pistol use the same magazine?

Thanks for any advice you can offer. Please feel free to reply via PM if you like.

 

[hexidismal]

The Kel-Tec Sub2000 comes in several caliber and magazine interchangeability flavors. (9mm models in Glock 17, Glock19, S&W59, BERETTA92, SIG226 )
(.40 models Glock 22, BERETTA96, SIG226. )

The fact that it folds in half is also a big plus. Also highly modifiable ( for the nerd is us )

A friend of mine had the Cx4 and Px4 combo in .40. The Px4 I liked a lot. It was especially good after I did some trigger work on it. The Cx4 however I wasn't such a big fan of. It's kind of bulky for a pistol caliber weapon, and I just didn't love the ergonomics. I also think it's more expensive than it should be. That's not to say that I like the Sub2000 ergonomics much better.. but the space and weight savings make up for it in my book. My friend by the way sold the Cx4 fairly quick, and eventually the Px4 later in favor of The AR and 1911 platforms.

 

[hexidismal]

Oh, also.. I'm not sure how Cali works exactly, but here in NY ( also a 10rd mag state ) it is legal to possess magazines with a greater capacity than 10 rounds in both pistols or rifles if the magazine was manufactured prior to the '94 ban ( commonly referred to as pre-ban). So, that's a consideration here for me. Most of the Sub2000 flavors are designed for magazines of which standard non-reduced capacity pre-bans can be found fairly easily, and carried legally.

 

[JohnBiltz]

If he is six six the Sub 2000 might be tough for him to shoot with that short stock but its what I thought of as well. I don't think its legal in California though.

 

[hexidismal]

A good point. I don't know about the legality thing, no idea about Cali, but the length thing.. yeah. There is a stock extension part made by kel-tec, which allows the gun to still fold but gives you another.. inch and a half maybe on stock length. It helps, still not great , but I pretty much can't shoot the thing without it. Even still it is a little hard for me to get those sights lined up on mine without pushing my cheek into it.

EDIT: I think you're right by the way JB. Calguns and KT forums seem to say it isn't California legal (at least from a quick google).
Anyway, I can think of a few other ways to keep magazine interchangeability.. but none of them hugely practical, most I would consider to be lesser quality than the original choices, and most likely also not Cali. legal anyway. Considering that, Id say to the original poster that you're probably on the right track with the Berettas if those guns are available to you.

EDIT #2 Except that from what I can find, it seems the Cx4 isn't legal in California either. At least not without some major modification.
The only Carbine/Pistol combo I can think of that would be California legal might be one of the old Ruger PC carbines ,which share mags with the Ruger P series pistols. The carbines aren't made anymore , but you can still find them at jacked up prices on gunbroker and the like. Here's an interesting thread on someone trying to make his Cx4 Cali. legal though.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509

 

[LiveLife]

ahriman, welcome to THR.

Same situation here in Central California and we went through the same thing with my wife.

Our decision came down to Glocks, M&P40/45, PT145 as she is able to shoot Glocks well and M&P has 3 grip inserts that fit her hand well (with the small insert, she is comfortable even with the M&P45). Taurus Mil Pro PT145 fits her hand very well (just about smallest grip for double-stack 10 round 45ACP - make sure it is the DA/SA trigger model and not DAO). The ergonomics on M&P and PT145 is very well suited for smaller hands as they are easier to reach and operate. Go to the gun store and have your wife hold and operate all the levers and buttons.

As to 10 round limit mags, that applies to post-ban date guns and magazines. If you already owned hi-capacity (10+) magazines before the ban, they are legal to keep and use. It is a difficult law to enforce as magazines do not have manufacture dates stamped on them, like Gen1-5 Glock mags (there are 9 generations total)

However, if you have hi-capacity mags for guns manufactured after the ban data (like M&P), then you will have very hard time explaining how you got them before the ban date.

 

[Gryffydd]

For me the choice would be .357 revolvers and .357 leverguns, but that may not be your cup of tea. I really like the fact that out of a rifle the .357 is very close to the 7.62x39 in performance(under 100 yards anyway). The 9/40/45 rounds pick up very little velocity in a carbine.

 

[LiveLife]

in case the stuff REALLY hits the fan and we're scavenging ammo from empty cop cars or the local pd needs some ammo to get us out of danger

You won't find any ammo in empty cop cars if SHTF. If local PD needs ammo, you will be on your own to provide protection for your family/friends/neighbors.

I have SHTF back packs made with essential first aid, food/water, flash lights, radio/Walkie Talkies, E-blanket/shelter, gloves/tools and extra guns/ammo in the safe ready to go. Have tactical vests ready with pistol/magazines/flash light by the nightstand at night for easy access. If SHTF, you simply grab the vests, backpacks and long guns and you are ready - no fumbling for stuff.

 

[Ben86]

If you want the ultimate in rugged, modular handgun practicality get a couple 9mm glocks. The glock 19 has the best all around size. 9mm ammo is something that is very common, cheap and soft shooting enough so that your wife will not feel uncomfortable shooting it.

Limiting yourself to long guns that use the same magazines as your pistols seems a little irrational to me. You don't have much to choose from and pistol caliber carbines do not perform as well as rifle caliber carbines. If you want a rifle get a rifle. I recommend the basic M4 configuration.

 

[mokin]

Go with what you like. The idea of being able to use the same magazines and ammunition is great, but.... Pistols and carbines are not interchangable (role wise) and as was pointed out earlier, you don't gain much, ballistically, shooting 9/40/45 pistol ammo through a carbine. I would recommend a couple of Glocks and a carbine chambered for 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem with an adjustable stock. Different roles, different weapons.

 

[ahriman]

Limiting yourself to long guns that use the same magazines as your pistols seems a little irrational to me.

I'll admit, this may be the efficiency nerd in me winning out... or the fact that the Beretta carbine looks like something from a star trek movie.

Thanks, all, for the suggestions. I'll definitely start looking at these ideas.

 

[Raxar]

Nice Winter side arm. Found this for 250.00. armscor cut the cost in the stock it's plastic. Easy low cost fix. Galco fletch rig.

 

[Skylerbone]

Grab a pair of S&W M&P 9mm pistols, send in the rebates for 4 extra magazines and you'll have 2 pistols with 8 mags fully interchangable and ambidextrous. That's 88 rounds at the ready.

For a long gun, unless you live in a field at the top of a hill, a shotgun should serve your purpose fine. If anything hits any fan you're better off staying put unless mobs are burning down houses. A few 12v marine batteries, a converter, flashlights, cook stove, port. toilet, food, water and gas masks will be more practical than the $900+ you'll spend on an AR 15. Look into having a reinforced room installed in your basement and store it all there.

My .02

 

[ahriman]

Look into having a reinforced room installed in your basement and store it all there.

There is wisdom in that. In fact, my only comment is that in So Cal, basements are exceedingly rare (as in, I've never seen one since I moved out of NYC) because the ground never freezes, so the homes are built on slab foundations or "raised" foundations with a tiny crawlspace underneath.

;-(

 

[LiveLife]

Convert an existing room or build a "safe room" (no windows) with direct water supply line from the meter and flushing toilet or drain. Separate power source (solar/small generator vented to outside) with cameras/monitors. Enclosed patio/lean to shed in garage works too. When SHTF and we go, we go to the safe room and start reloading.

Reinforce the walls with rebar and concrete with secondary exit to the roof so you can patrol your perimeter in addition to the camera. Reinforce the roof too. There's a lot of safe room plans/ideas online - Google it.

Yup, it your castle - defend it.

 

[Skylerbone]

I was at work earlier and abbreviated my post accordingly. If fleeing is a must then I would suggest a compact .22LR in order to harvest game. It may not be as effective for self defense but anyone can carry 100 rounds of ammo in a jeans pocket. Several companies make two-piece rifles such as Henry, Marlin (not sure if the Papoose is still made) and Browning. Mossberg makes their JIC shotgun (might have to check laws on length) but again weight becomes a factor.

Anyway the idea is to pack light. Think water and filtration, food clothing and shelter (a net style blind works well for concealment), tools, rope, light, firestarter....

Well, you can see why I'd prefer to stay put. I do NOT suggest illegal magazines or shortened (beyond legal) firearms of any kind. Gun laws make drug laws seem like a wrist slap and on the practical side you never know what will come up in a divorce hearing if that s unexpectedly hits another fan (and is much more likely than a full scale zombie attack).

The fact that you are being proactive is a sign of common sense. Let that be your guide for what is practical for you. Now about your State of residence...

 

[LiveLife]

ahriman, you should take your wife to the range and test shoot different pistols to see which ones you/she feel comfortable with and shoot more accurately.

What shoots well in our hands may not shoot well in yours. Only actual range test will show you that.

For SHTF situation, definite +1 on shot gun as mere display or the sound of racking a shell into battery may deter/resolve possible conflict (another reason why I prefer the simple/fool-proof pump shotgun as the sound of racking is very distinct and bone-chilling). Big-5 regularly has Mossberg 500/590 and Remington 870 on sale. Watch some 3-gun match videos on Youtube and buy the "Tactical Shotgun" video from Gunsite and practice well/often with them using cheap Walmart bulk Winchester/Federal birdshots.

I have 00 buckshots in the tube with slugs in the side saddle (for longer range damage like punching a car a block down) and more of the same in the tactical vest/SHTF backpack. Small fanny pack work well for extra shotshells/ammo pouch. I don't recommend the sling based shell carrier as it makes the shotgun too heavy for fast handling. If you wear military type pants (BDU), the side pockets are big enough to hold 20 shells with easy access.

BTW, both Costco and Sams Club has 100-120 lumen (very bright) 3 watt LED flashlights for $27 for 2-3 packs. They have aluminum bodies and uses 3 AAA batteries. I prefer Streamlight flashlights on the vests, but these are cheap enough to put several in the backpack for backup (you can use Lithium AAA or Li-Ion rechargeable batteries for long service use).

 

[LibertySympathizer]

You need another plan; CX4 is not CA legal.

 

[ahriman]

ahriman, you should take your wife to the range and test shoot different pistols to see which ones you/she feel comfortable with and shoot more accurately.

Of course! We're taking our first "basic firearms" class in a couple weeks, and we'll be spending quite a bit of time on various ranges.

BTW, both Costco and Sams Club has 100-120 lumen (very bright) 3 watt LED flashlights for $27 for 2-3 packs.

I did mention we're engineers, right? I'm up to my ears in LED flashlights. ;-)

You need another plan; CX4 is not CA legal.

so I've found out... a f***ing THUMBHOLE?!?!?! we need to get these morons out of office.

 

[tack]

I owned a 1911 when my wife decided to back me up. We looked for a single action auto since they had the same operations as the 22s she shot for practice. We got her a 1911 in 9mm with narrow grips so she can rack the slide, and so I don't get confused. The 9mm is our go to gun since both of us can operate it. My next addition will be a 9mm carbine followed by a 20 ga.

I have my "toys" like the 1911 in 45ACP, but the serious self defense equipment MUST be something we BOTH can use.

 

[LiveLife]

ahriman:
Of course! We're taking our first "basic firearms" class in a couple weeks, and we'll be spending quite a bit of time on various ranges.

Oops! Sorry, tired after work posting - it's my usual suggestion for gun selection question.

I did mention we're engineers, right? I'm up to my ears in LED flashlights.

Sorry again. I did say Streamlights for the tactical vest.

but the serious self defense equipment MUST be something we BOTH can use.

Yup. Our drill is wife takes the AR and I take the shotgun with all the hand guns she is comfortable shooting accurately.

If you haven't, watch Mr. & Mrs. Smith and tell your wife, "Honey, you don't have to be THAT good."

 

[ahriman]

Yup. Our drill is wife takes the AR and I take the shotgun with all the hand guns she is comfortable shooting accurately.

I have a feeling that's what we'll end up doing, getting matching pistols as large as she's comfortable with, a shotgun for me and some kind of AR/MP4/etc. for her.

but... the Cx4... it's so... polymer... (puppy whining noise)

 

[Skylerbone]

M&P can be had in his and hers and long and short and FO and tritium. Plus you can have ANY color you like as long as it's black. Guess you know what's in my basement though these are just the toys.

 

[Ben86]

The CX4 is illegal in CA because it has a thumbhole stock? Whaa? Am I missing something? I guess its the same reasoning that restricts suppressors. Because we all know if the average joe could simply go to his local gun store and pick up a suppressor it be such a threat to society, the space-time continuum and cuddle fish everywhere.

 

[W.E.G.]

Get rifles in rifle calibers.

Get pistols in pistol calibers.