Historical Accuracy of Blackpowder Accessories

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jmar

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I know things like flasks and powder horns are historically correct. But did they have things like powder measures and cappers like we see them today back then? Could we post some pictures of some original examples? Thanks
 
You see cappers in original cased sets all the time and in Ned H. Roberts excellent book, 'The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle' on pages 64 and 65 there is a picture from the Collection of F.E. Dunn that shows all sorts of original cappers that are available today. Even shows pictures of small 'priming' flasks that are currently available. But powder measures are a different story as I see nothing in any source that I have that shows a graduated and adjustable powder measure like the kind that is available today.

Doesn't mean that they didn't exist but perusing Robert's book I don't see any pictures of a graduated and adjustable measure so if they were common I'm sure Roberts would have included them in his book.

There is also an old rule where you use,
"One inch of powder for each foot of barrel."

From that statement or 'rule' I'm seeing that the owner of the rifle would set up the charge to give him the best accuracy then construct a nonadjustable measure out of horn or bone or brass for that specific charge.
 
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Crawdad1 said:
You see cappers in original cased sets all the time and in Ned H. Roberts excellent book, 'The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle' on pages 64 and 65 there is a picture from the Collection of F.E. Dunn that shows all sorts of original cappers that are available today. Even shows pictures of small 'priming' flasks that are currently available. But powder measures are a different story as I see nothing in any source that I have that shows a graduated and adjustable powder measure like the kind that is available today.

Doesn't mean that they didn't exist but perusing Robert's book I don't see any pictures of a graduated and adjustable measure so if they were common I'm sure Roberts would have included them in his book.

There is also an old rule where you use,
"One inch of powder for each foot of barrel."

From that statement or 'rule' I'm seeing that the owner of the rifle would set up the charge to give him the best accuracy then construct a nonadjustable measure out of horn or bone or brass for that specific charge.
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Crawdad, very good. What do you think about the enduring argument regarding the "Short Starters". There are pistol rods but I have to speculate on the short starter? Back in the day undersized balls and thick patches and over powder wads were used. They did not need a short starter?
 
What we call "Short Starters" were originally called "Straight Starters":

Page 60, The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle," by Ned. H. Roberts --

"The straight starter, used with or without the loading block, is made from hickory, or other close grained hardwood, and consists of a cylindrical plug 3 or 4 inches long, about 1/16 inch smaller than the bore of the rifle with a flattened knob on the top which is held in the palm of the hand when applying pressure to start the ball or bullet into the muzzle of the rifle, then by striking the knob with the ball of the hand, the ball is forced down the bore the length of the starter rod. The starter is then removed and the ramrod used in pushing the ball down onto the powder... The straight starter was generally suspended from the shoulder by a buckskin thong or cord, or carried in the hunting bag."

Photo from page 58 of that book: (the caption refers to '65 years ago'. The book was originally published in 1940, so the equipment would be from about 1875 at least.)

straight starter.jpg


Edit: My apology for butting into the conversation, I did not mean to steal anything from Crawdad! After he mentioned the Ned Roberts book in his post, I got my copy off the shelf and had it open to that page when I read Dog Soldier's question. It's been a while since I read the book, forgot how much information is in there!
 
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Great discussion!!! Thanks J Bar for that information and you're dead on about Ned Roberts book, its just packed with information.
 
If powder measures aren't historically correct how did they funnel their powder into their guns? Especially on revolvers i think it'd be hard. Also does anyone know some cool looking historically accurate cappers for sale? I'm on the market for one. Thanks for the replies.
 
Historical accuracy matters little today. Whatever gets you shooting and does the job easier for you is not a bad thing.
 
Dog Soldier said:
Crawdad, very good. What do you think about the enduring argument regarding the "Short Starters". There are pistol rods but I have to speculate on the short starter? Back in the day undersized balls and thick patches and over powder wads were used. They did not need a short starter?
Click to expand...
I suspect that short starters were the out growth of target shooting and chunk guns where a tight patch ball was needed. I think the first short starters might have been mallets in the early days... After hunters and casual shooters discovered them, they became a routine accessory. Just an opinion.
 
These are replica of original powder flasks. For the revolver they probably poured right from the spout on the flask,
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/69/1/FLASK-COLT

Or bought the rolled cartridges complete with percussion caps,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Col...268163?hash=item3f74212243:g:d5UAAOxy-WxTBEag


These Hawksley have adjustable heads but are more for a rifle,
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/69/1/FLASK-HAWKSLEY-FL-BR

Here is a better pic of an antique powder flask with its adjustable head, look at the far right pic and you can see the adjustable head clearly,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-1800s-Shell-Design-Powder-Flask/252744672689?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=41393&meid=9e63bd59ee32442ea6544981ab8e831b&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=262827352519


I've also read in R Gordon Cumming's, 'A Hunter's Life in South Africa', where he placed a round ball in their hand and pour enough powder to cover the ball. If you want to read a good detailed book about all those old English muzzleloaders like James Purdey, Westley Richards, William Moore, its brutal, but that is your book.
 
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The brass adjustable measures with the swing out funnel or without and marked in grains are pretty close copies of the ones made in the early 1800's.
 
JeffG said:
I suspect that short starters were the out growth of target shooting and chunk guns where a tight patch ball was needed. I think the first short starters might have been mallets in the early days... After hunters and casual shooters discovered them, they became a routine accessory. Just an opinion.
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Jeff, Now as always. You are most likely correct. Great post. They are a more modern device.:)
 
Crawdad, As a matter of fact no. They are mostly horn, antler or wood. Have you fellows ever visited the Fur Trade museum near Chadron, Neb. ? That place has tons of every thing.
The "Rondy" idiots often Ban sun glasses at their shoots. No one would last a day up in the snow fields without eye protections. There are orginal "Sun Googles" on display;)

https://www.westnebraska.com/Museum-of-the-Fur-Trade/
 
TheRodDoc said:
The brass adjustable measures with the swing out funnel or without and marked in grains are pretty close copies of the ones made in the early 1800's.
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Do you have a source for your information. I've never seen one even close.
 
 
Great link Dog Soldier, and that Museum could answer a whole host of questions. I see in William Ivey's book, 'North Carolina Schools of Longrifles 1765-1865' on pages 293, 294, 295 and 297 there are original North Carolina hunting bags with horn and attached to one of the straps of the hunting bag is a powder measure made from antler attached by piece of rawhide. But on page 296 there is an original hunting bag with horn and on the hunting bag strap is sewn a leather pouch that holds a pewter powder measure with a mini plunger to measure the exact charge. It looks something like this,

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/86/1
 
I didn't look at every single linked "antique" powder measure, but every one I did look at didn't look correct as an old piece. First off, the font style of the markings wasn't like old stuff. I think it can all stop right there as far as what I saw that was linked. Not saying they didn't have similar, but I don't think any of the ones I saw were truly old.

Edit: "The Saleroom" link had nice older style fonts on the markings. Much better than most of the others. The Dreweatts site measure also looked better than most modern repros. Ive not sen a repro with the flaired end of the funnel like theirs was. Wish there were more pics of the stem of the measure.

The pistol and musket flasks were simple to use as a measure, they had different spouts that varied in charge.
 
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Link number four is definitely fake, number one is suspicious but the rest look real to me. Huh i had no idea those were ever real. Thanks for the post! I wish there was a better reference for 19th century shooting supplies. I went to the Cody Firearms Museum and they had nothing.
 
The cheap little imported Perc Pistol should scare you away.:thumbdown: Everyone of those items is very questionable. They appear to be of the 1950-1960 imported items. Before buying these study very carefully.:uhoh:
 
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