History of mental illness doesn't prevent gun buys

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starfuryzeta

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IMHO, a suprisingly neutral article showing that no matter how many gun laws you have, they don't mean squat unless they have the means to be enforced.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ay/historyofmentalillnessdoesntpreventgunbuys

The arrest last week of an Ohio man as the prime suspect in a 10-month string of highway shootings in the state has turned a momentary spotlight on the mentally ill's easy access to guns.

Charles McCoy Jr., who has been charged with one assault count, has a history of psychiatric problems. But, apparently, he had no record of being committed to an institution or judged mentally incompetent. So he was not prohibited from buying a gun.

Even if such a record existed, it likely would not have shown up in a required background check for a gun purchase. That's because only a handful of states make any mental-health information available to the national background databank used for checking gun buyers. Nearly two-thirds don't even compile such information. As a result, a 1968 federal law designed to keep guns away from the mentally ill is toothless.

Indifference by state bureaucrats and lawmakers and pressure from groups defending the privacy rights of the mentally ill allow this public-safety gap to persist.

In the wake of the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy, Congress banned anyone who has been involuntarily institutionalized or found by a court to be mentally ill from owning or buying a firearm. But for 25 years, lawmakers failed to provide any enforcement, instead trusting sellers and buyers to obey the law. Finally, in 1993, Congress mandated background checks for anyone wanting to buy a gun from a federally licensed gun dealer.

Even so, an individual who lies on a purchase application about a recorded mental illness probably won't be caught because 31 states, including Ohio, don't have any access to records of those committed to mental institutions. And only four of the 19 states that maintain records are taking steps to provide information to the national instant-background-check system that is used to approve gun buyers.

Alabama is about to become the fifth state. Its action comes after a mentally ill man was arrested in the killing of two police officers Jan. 2. The accused had been committed to a state hospital at least four times but still was able to buy a powerful assault rifle that police say was used in the slayings. The gun dealer ran the required check, but found no record of the buyer's troubled past.

Congress briefly tackled the problem two years ago, after a priest and parishioner were killed in a suburban New York church. They were shot by a man whose troubled mental-health history was in a state database but not available to federal background checkers. The House subsequently passed a bill offering grants to states that make criminal, mental and domestic-violence records available for instant checks. It died in the Senate, and no action has been taken since, even though the measure is backed by the powerful National Rifle Association.

Advocates for the mentally ill say access to these records would violate the privacy of those who have no history of endangering others. But the proposal stuck in Congress includes provisions that would limit the use of mental-health information only for background checks and respect state privacy laws and doctor-patient privileges.

That balanced approach can protect the privacy rights of the mentally ill and reduce the risk of gun violence, a promise made to the public more than three decades ago.
 
McCoy was never committed to a mental health facility. He didn't have a history of violence. There wasn't any reason for him to be prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

Doctors don't have some magical method of determining that a non-violent person will suddenly become violent.

There are thousands of people that some might consider having has some history of mental illness. Would you ban a woman who had received counseling after a rape from purchasing a gun to protect herself from being raped again?

McCoy's purchase of a handgun wasn't a failure of the gun control laws. There simply weren't signs that would lead someone to think he might become violent.

If there were some way to tell that he would have become violent, they should have locked him up before he started trying to kill people. However, there's no chrystal ball that allows the governemt to tell who might become violent, or who might become a victim of violence. Unless they can show a significan risk that someone will become violent, their right to carry a firearm should not be infringed upon.
 
I agree with what Flatrock has stated. You cannot keep nutjobs from owning firearms and you cannot quantify what makes somebody a 'nutjob'. Frankly, your average tree hugging hippie liberal would consider me a nutjob.

Quoting flatrock:
Unless they can show a significan risk that someone will become violent, their right to carry a firearm should not be infringed upon.

Sir, I whole heartedly agree with the idea you're proposing there and the "common sense" reasoning behind it. However, I call attention to it because if such a law were written into the books many of the RKBA people could be denied firearm ownership. That scares me.

That is the reason I oppose any restrictions on firearm ownership with regards to mental illness. Frankly, if you're that violent by nature that you cannot be trusted with a firearm you shouldn't be walking the streets. I am not a violent person by nature. I'm a rather passive "happy go lucky" kinda guy. However, I am quite capable of violence when need be. Some may term my violent capabilities an illness -- I would consider it an asset personally.

If you were to put me in a room with a liberal shrink for 2 hours it's not hard to imagine me coming out looking like a nut job. My personality is found in around 1% of the population. My IQ is around 0.5%. My political beliefs are probably somewhere around 1-2% of the population. In all practicality I am the poster child for "strange thinking nut job."

Psychologicaly I'm capable of horrible acts of violence in the minds of the tree hugging hippie liberal.
Anybody that knows me personally knows that I hold myself to a higher moral code that prevents me from doing anything truely horrible. It's far easier to get me labled a nutcase on paper than it is a nice guy. So, that's why I oppose such thinking.

If they're really that crazy to keep them from owning guns -- they're crazy enough to keep them locked away. That's all.

I agreed with everything you said, flatrock -- I'm just splitting hairs. Don't take it pesonally. I've thought and said the same thing you wrote plenty of times.
 
Gun buying ain't the half of it. There has been a 'deinstitutionalization movement', afoot for about 40 years which has stripped society of the ability to keep violent mentally ill persons locked up in mental hospitals. These hospitals are running less than 5-10% of 1965 capacity in some states.

I used to be the 'zookeeper' for a small menagarie of deinstitutionalized criminally insane people which over the years included over two dozen 'not guilty by reason of insanity' murderers, plus numerous rapists, dog lovers, armed robbers and assorted others. :rolleyes: (Give me a roomful of gorillas any day!)

If they're really that crazy to keep them from owning guns -- they're crazy enough to keep them locked away. That's all.
If the ACLU types have their way this will never happen. Aided by two generations of sniveling liberal Federal judges they have amassed 40 solid years of case law dismantling the mental hospital system. All you need to reverse it is 50 years and a billion dollars to hire lawyers. :banghead:
 
Until we have "Minority Report"s "Pre-Crime" system, exactly what would the article writer have us do with people who "might" do something bad?
 
Clinton was trying ( and may have succeeded) to opening the Veteran's Administration records for the federal gun bureaucracy. Otherwise, most states have probate records of involuntary committments to mental hospitals.

The bugger of getting into private mental health records or chasing prescriptions for psychotrophic drugs is that the population has been encouraged to destigmatize various mental health issues and encourage treatment. If the anti-gun bureaucracy gets hold of all of these records, they would be able to downgrade a fair percentage of the population to almost-a-citizen status.

The prevalence of mood-altering medication is so great that there is a fair amount of prosac in the metropolitan water supply- being defecated there by an army of ovine females attempting to medicate themselves through an assortment of dysphoria disorders and the unfairness of it all.
 
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