History of the .38 Short Colt

[jski]

The .38 Short Colt was special purpose designed for cartridge conversions of the ‘51 and ‘61 Navy Colts which had .36 caliber barrels with .375” grooves. The bullet was originally a .375” heeled bullet.

At some point it became an internal lubed .357” bullet. And this happened prior to the .38 Long Colt? How did this happen and when did happen?

 

[Jim Watson]

I thought the Navy conversions were to .38 Long Colt.
The .38 Short Colt was for their various pocket pistols.

 

[jski]

I thought the Navy conversions were to .38 Long Colt.
The .38 Short Colt was for their various pocket pistols.

The 38 Long Colt didn’t show up till post conversion gun sales by Colt. Are you thinking about the .38 S&W ?

 

[.455_Hunter]

I have a mid-20th century production .38 Short Colt cartridge that still has the heeled bullet.

 

[hawg]

The .38 Long Colt didn't come about until 1875 and used a heeled bullet until around IIRC 1879. I don't think the .38 Short Colt ever changed to an inside lubed bullet. The 1851 navy conversions had cylinders bored straight through and would take Short or Long Colt.

 

[jski]

The 38 SC has become very popular today with ICORE competition shooters because it’s quick to dump the spent cases and quick to reload new rounds, especially when packaged in a moonclip.

I just bought several hundred Starline 38 SC cases after I asked their ballistician if I could load the brass to 9mm +P pressure levels and he responded: not a problem. The 38 SC has a case volume just slightly above the 9mm’s.

 

[mcb]

I don't think the modern version of 38 Short Colt came into being until the late 1970's early 80's but I don't have any good evidence to back that up.

 

[jski]

Which other guns, besides the conversion '51 and '61 Navy Colts, was the 38 SC used in?

 

[mcb]

I found this chart many years ago on a Reddit forum. This is where my assumption that modern 38 Short Colt came into being in the late 70's early 80's. I have unfortunately lost the link to the OP and the person that had created it but it might be of interest here. The 38 caliber revolver cartridge has gone through many many evolutions and offshoots.



The forum software lowers the resolution of this very large image please use the link below to see the full resolution image. This is hosted on my personal imgur page.

https://i.imgur.com/s7eMZze.jpg

 

[Jim Watson]

Thanks.
According to that chart, the answer to whether .36 cartridge conversions were .38 Short or Long Colt is neither.
The .38 Long Centerfire was its own thing.
And looking at sales sites, a lot of them were in .38 Long RIMFIRE.
Wouldn't that be an unpleasant surprise if you went to shoot Grandpa's Gun.

 

[mcb]

Thanks.
According to that chart, the answer to whether .36 cartridge conversions were .38 Short or Long Colt is neither.
The .38 Long Centerfire was its own thing.
And looking at sales sites, a lot of them were in .38 Long RIMFIRE.
Wouldn't that be an unpleasant surprise if you went to shoot Grandpa's Gun.

I sort of wish the medium and larger caliber rimfires would come back sometimes. A 38 Short Rimfire or a similar 41 Rimfire would be a pleasant little small-game woods cartridge. Keep the pressures moderate and make revolvers and pump and lever actions in the cartridge. Short fat rimfires with moderate recoil and pleasant report.

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

Do you guys know that 9mm rimfire is still to be had? Midway has them. 9mm is close to 38 and could maybe made to work. They are in the form of brass shotshells. Just throwing that out there.

 

[jski]

This might help to explain things at bit more clearly:

In the 1890s .38 Colt cases were lengthened to 1.03″ and the 150-gr. bullet diameter reduced to .357″ over 19 grains of black powder. The barrels were still being made with nominal .375″ rifling groove diameter. Colt didn’t stop the practice with the SAA/Peacemaker until 1914 and by then its other .38 Colt revolvers were no longer produced.

So how can a .357″ bullet leave a .375″ barrel with any sort of accuracy? The trick was to make them very soft and give them a deep hollow base. This system worked well and still does.