History question (for possible publication)

[oneshooter]

Just as a change of pace. How about a cut down 1887 Winchester lever action shotgun for the lady?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[230RN]

Meager addition to the "mortieres" pictured in the above link:

Page 151, "Guns," by Dudley Pope, has a pic of a hand mortar virtually identical in layout. Apparently, despite the shoulder stock, they were called "Hand Mortars."

The caption reads, " A flint-lock 'hand mortar' of bronze, weighing 9 lb 9 oz. It was made early in the eighteenth century, and its calibre is 2.8 ins"

I checked the pages around this pic, but no further information was available on this piece.

Despite the lack of information on this particular weapon, if you ever get your lunch-hooks near a copy of this book, buy it. It is profusely and clearly illustrated, with many excellent photographs and clear drawings of the internal workings of many firearms... including, for example, of the internal workings of the Gatling Gun.

Published by Spring Books, 1965, but that is the only publisher's information on the book. It does not even show a Library of Congress number.

 

[Scoupe]

Two quick historical notes. As mentioned, the buffalo hunter era was long over by 1890. Secondly, mentioned "gunshops". If a person needed a new gun in 1890 they could order direct from the factory and have it delivered, or purchase from a dry goods store, a general store, etc.

 

[Loomis]

In 1890 you aren't likely to run across anything double action or anything hammerless.

 

[Scoupe]

Very true. While available, most folks were making do with they had til it broke. Another common option for a revolver would be cartridge converted revolvers such as Remington 1858 and Colt 1860. There were a lot of those around.

 

[Cosmoline]

In 1890 you aren't likely to run across anything double action or anything hammerless.

Actually there were a lot of double action revolvers around. Probably millions of them. A number of service revolvers were double action, along with the "bulldog" and lemon squeezer style pocket revolvers.

 

[Loomis]

I didn't say impossible. I said not likely. And still do. I'm aware of those little 32 caliber s&w and h&r top break revolvers. They existed in 1890 but I doubt they were common until after 1900. Besides, they were junk. I know, I have one in 38 caliber.

Same with the original colt DA...rare and junk.

 

[theken206]

btw, water and bullets tend not to mix.

viscosity and all

 

[Hutch]

As has been pointed out, "buffalo" (bison) were almost extinct by 1890. "Buffalo guns" were usually large caliber single-shot rifles, such as the Sharps .50-90.

 

[nezumi]

Wow, fantastic information. It's going to take a while for me to figure out the precise make and model for each firearm, but at least now I know they'll be correct.

I am now planning on hitting the NRA museum. It's more than an hour drive, and I worry it's going to be tiny, but there's plenty of other nice stuff in Virginia to make up for it. Hopefully we'll find someone there willing to answer questions.

That knuckleduster is the cutest little gun. I wonder if they made any with little flowers and bunnies engraved on it.

So it sounds like the shotguns SHOULD have hammers. Easy enough to change. The double triggers is also good to know.

Someone mentioned a "BP Double Gun". I believe BP stands for black powder? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll admit, I'm still very interested in that launcher thing... 25 pounds could be carried with difficulty, which would limit how often it comes up, but 10 lbs. is quite managable. Regardless, I have to imagine the recoil would be pretty significant. I'll probably include it was a percussion-cap, fused-mortar launcher developed based on an older French design, but never put into production that the character obtained through his substantial contacts and lots of money. When the gunnies complain, I'll point out I didn't call cartridges bullets, or magazines clips, so let me have my one pretty : P

Thank you again for all of your help. This is fantastic information.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I am now planning on hitting the NRA museum. It's more than an hour drive, and I worry it's going to be tiny, but there's plenty of other nice stuff in Virginia to make up for it. Hopefully we'll find someone there willing to answer questions.

You can preview the museum on the web link I sent you. It's far from "tiny". To insure you can find the proper person when you get there, you might want to consider calling ahead and letting them know what you are up to.

If someone there can't answer your questions, then they can't be answered. If you doing research for a book that you are hoping to have published, an hours drive is -nothing-.

 

[Torchman]

The link to the pic didn't work...but what you are describing sounds like a Lyle gun. Google that and see if I am close. It is used for Search and Rescue as a line throwing gun.

 

[Prof. A. Wickwire]

I didn't say impossible. I said not likely. And still do. I'm aware of those little 32 caliber s&w and h&r top break revolvers. They existed in 1890 but I doubt they were common until after 1900. Besides, they were junk. I know, I have one in 38 caliber.

I have to disagree. While there were many junk pistols (referred to as "Suicide Specials" in the press of the time). The break top DA pistols made by the big manufacturers (Smith & Wesson, Harrington & Richardson, Iver Johnson, and a few others) were considered quality pocket and vest pocket pistols at the time.

Many gentleman of the time would have one on him whenever he went out.

I have several in my collection that are in almost new condition (two H&R, one IJ, and a Forehand & Wadsworth) and are just as well machined and finished (if not more so) than many new revolvers I have seen.

Keep in mind that these pistols were designed for low pressure black powder cartridges. They are often not reliable or safe with modern high pressure smokeless powder loads.

There are a number of websites devoted to pocket pistols of the Golden Age.

For a shotgun, consider a side-by-side double shotgun made by Parker, L.C. Smith (patented a hammerless lock system in 1886), Remington, Ithaca (formerly W.H. Baker) for the US market. Greener, Holland & Holland, and Rigby would cover the UK market.

A UK large break action revolver could be a Webley MK I, Adams, or Beaumont-Adams most likely in .455 Webley.

The “Cowboy Revolver” would most likely be a Colt 1873 Single Action Army in either .45 Colt or .44-40 (.44 Winchester Center Fire).

Enjoy.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

 

[nezumi]

Torchman, it doesn't appear to be a Lyle gun (although thanks for telling me about those. Very neat.)

Strangely enough, the link works in the original message, but not when quoted.

here it is again, for your reference:
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/object.cfm?ID=AAA2513

Alternatively, hit:
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/

click on 'Weapons' - 'Percussion Grenade Gun'.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

They existed in 1890 but I doubt they were common until after 1900.

Actually there were a lot of double action revolvers around.

The break top DA pistols made by the big manufacturers (Smith & Wesson, Harrington & Richardson, Iver Johnson, and a few others) were considered quality pocket and vest pocket pistols at the time.

The Pepperbox of the 1830s was D/A. The Adams and Starr Revolvers (Unforgiven) during the Civil War were D/A. The Pettengill Revolver (Civil War) was D/A only! Colt had the New Frontier .45 and the .41 caliber "Thunderer" and .38 "Lightning" long before 1890. Colt 1889 Navy revolvers were D/A and had swing out cylinders.
Smith & Wesson, besides all there pocket models, offered the Frontier Double Action in .44 caliber in 1886. Merwin Hulbert also offered a D/A model.
On the other side of the pond, Webley & Enfield (England), Nagant (Belgium), Gasser (Austria), Chamelot-Delvigne (France), French, Danish, Italian, Norwegian, and Russian military arsenals all made D/A revolvers before 1890. In Europe, you would have been MORE likely to find D/A guns than S/A guns!