Hmong/Deer hunter shootings

[Biker]

Of course Lobotomy Boy, I move. I have big ones, and I wanna keep 'em.
I get your point.
Biker

 

[CAnnoneer]

several dolts + one maniac + 2 rifles = big trouble

Hunters did some really foolish stuff, including a warning shot (*** ??). Maniac was verbally and physically provoked, blew a gasket and opened fire. The dolts died.

Sorry, but stupidity hurts. Being a murderous maniac hurts too. All got what they ordered. Case closed.

 

[FireBreather01]

I can't believe how some here want to excuse/justify Vang's actions. There are no excuses, none - he's a cold-blooded killer, period. He chased two of the victims (unarmed) almost 500 feet through the woods before he back shot them.

I don't know how many of you guys that are excusing or trying to find a hypothetical justifiction for Vang are hunters but trespassing situations like this are not all that rare here in WI. I have witnessed several confrontations regarding trespassing - some get pretty heated but they don't end in gun-fire. This was probably not the first time Vang had been seen on their property and some of you just expect tea and crumpets from the owners while they 'ask' him to leave - ridiculous! Hmong trespassing has been a problem here - they just don't seem to respect or understand property rights and boundaries. Is that an excuse that justifies racial epithets? - No, but for crying out loud if you are the offender you had better expect rather harsh words to be thrown your way. It sounds like some of you want to allow 'hurt feelings' as justification to shoot.

 

[cracked butt]

Well, this thread certainly seperates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[50 Freak]

Okay, real quick question. If the hunters had told Vang he was on their property and he was an *&%* for doing so. It would have ended with Vang walking off of their property with his tail between his leg. End of story.

They passed the line when they stopped Vang and prevented him from leaving. I'm not saying that was enough justification to go nutso on their ass. But what were they thinking? Even if Vang didn't go nutso killer on them and the police came, who would be in trouble? Vang for tresspassing (probably get off with a ticket) or the hunters for illegally detaining him???

We here on THR have a heart attack if one of us is detained by airport security. Now imagine if your neighbor cursed at you and detained you for walking across his lawn. How would you feel, would you go rambo on him or sit quietly? I'd hope you wouldn't go nutso and "take out" his entire family. That where Vang crossed the line. And if you ask me, both parties were pretty stupid. Only winner there were the deer.

Sure, we may be racist blowhards at times, but to say that there was a chance these people were going to harm Vang displays absolutely no understanding of this culture.

I'm sorry but this is a dumb statement. Basically your saying, it's okay to be a racist blowhard and we should accept your anti-social behavior because we need to respect and understand your culture. Well my culture is to kick the living crap out of people that wear the color purple. You need to understand and respect my culture. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Guys I honestly respect all your opinions. Let's agree to disagree and part friends.

It was a bad situation that got worse. Lots of people dead, some guy rotting in jail forever. Sucks no matter how you look at it. Lets learn from this.

 

[c_yeager]

I'm sorry but this is a dumb statement. Basically your saying, it's okay to be a racist blowhard and we should accept your anti-social behavior because we need to respect and understand your culture.

You dont need to respect anyone's culture, and as a matter of fact you DO have to accept anti-social behavior. Tough cookies, sometimes freedom means you have to put up with jerks, want a homogonized culture where everyone treats you nicely you arent going to find it here. Some people are going to hate you just because they want to, and that is their right.

Well my culture is to kick the living crap out of people that wear the color purple.

Good for you. You have every right in the world to believe that and even to say it. Its when you actually engage in violence that the rules change. Thats why its OK to yell at some moron and call him every rude name in the book, but it is crime to hit him.

It was a bad situation that got worse. Lots of people dead, some guy rotting in jail forever. Sucks no matter how you look at it. Lets learn from this.

I learned that i need to write to my lawmakers to reinforce that we have a death penalty for a reason. This guy needs to swing. Its a crime that the tax payers have to pay for his room and board when they should only have to buy a rope.

edited to add:

Dont you see the hypocricy in saying that a man cannot be judged on the basis of his race, and then to say that his actions are excusable BECAUSE of his race? To say that the man should be shown consideration due to his race in a court of law is quite literally saying that he SHOULD be judged on the merits of his race.

 

[50 Freak]

I learned that i need to write to my lawmakers to reinforce that we have a death penalty for a reason. This guy needs to swing. Its a crime that the tax payers have to pay for his room and board when they should only have to buy a rope.

I agree, I can't believe we spend so much money every year on confining truly heinous criminals. Hell throw them on an island and let them live their life away from us if you don't want to kill them. Just stop wasting our money on all these prisons. Read somewhere it take $30,000 to house a regular prisoner and about $65,000 a year for the "super" criminals like Manson etc. It's not like we could use that money for better things like educating our kids, helping to feeding the poor and stripper money.

Dont you see the hypocricy in saying that a man cannot be judged on the basis of his race, and then to say that his actions are excusable BECAUSE of his race? To say that the man should be shown consideration due to his race in a court of law is quite literally saying that he SHOULD be judged on the merits of his race.

You must be referring to someone else cause I don't think I ever said race should be a factor in sentencing someone for murder. Only way race can be a factor in this particular case is that the 8 hunters were "disrespectful" of Vang's race which probably lead up too and was a contributer to the end result. Never did I say, kill the whitey or anything like that.

I still believe both parties were pretty stupid and this is an unfortunatle result of a pissing contest.

 

[SteveS]

If the person tries to leave and you use physical force to prevent him or her from leaving, you will be guilty of kidnapping or false imprisonment.

But what were they thinking? Even if Vang didn't go nutso killer on them and the police came, who would be in trouble? Vang for tresspassing (probably get off with a ticket) or the hunters for illegally detaining him???

If that person committed a crime, you may detain them. It is called a citizen's arrest. In this case, trespassing. Didn't your CCW class cover how to detain someone that breaks into your home until the police arrive?

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

if the crime is trespassing isn't it kind of strange to detain them? in Texas, a peace officer must hear the criminal trespass warning be given, and then, if the person fails to leave, then the police will arrest him.

if the person is told to leave, and you don't give him the opportunity to leave, then is it not criminal trespass? in fact, if you physically restrain him AFTER telling him to leave, isn't that paradoxical?

i don't know the laws up in that particular state, however, in Texas, you cannot hold someone for trespass just for the police to come by and hear you tell him to leave, only to arrest him if he doesn't leave at that time.

 

[longeyes]

as I understand it...

"I can't believe we spend so much money every year on confining truly heinous criminals. Hell throw them on an island and let them live their life away from us if you don't want to kill them."

The chief difference between ancient and modern views of punishment is in the view--the product of Christianity and the Enlightenment--that criminals should be imprisoned, removed from society--then reformed and/or rehabilitated and re-integrated. In ancient times the way was exile--because the criminal was viewed as a toxic entity whose presence in the body politic would poison it. You de-toxed your society and denied the perp the blessings of civil intercourse. Time will tell which vison was more profound.

 

[MechAg94]

They passed the line when they stopped Vang and prevented him from leaving. I'm not saying that was enough justification to go nutso on their ass. But what were they thinking? Even if Vang didn't go nutso killer on them and the police came, who would be in trouble? Vang for tresspassing (probably get off with a ticket) or the hunters for illegally detaining him???

You do have the right to detain a trespasser. You are responsible for treating them okay and calling the sherrif or game warden ASAP, but you do have the right to detain them. You do need to be careful doing something that would get you sued. Trespassing in the middle of a large spread of land is not the same as walking across your yard.

I know a guy who detained a man who was walking through his hunting spread to push game across the fence onto his own lease. My friend detained him at gun point and called the game warden. I believe the game warden may have let him go but he revoked his license. Not sure what else happened to the guy if he was fined or not. I am pretty sure the lease owner heard about it.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

If that person committed a crime, you may detain them. It is called a citizen's arrest. In this case, trespassing. Didn't your CCW class cover how to detain someone that breaks into your home until the police arrive?

In my CCW class we learned that committing a radical action like attempting a citizens arrest would most likely lead to a very expensive and ultimately futile test case with the result being bankruptcy and imprisonment. But hey, knock yourself out.

 

[wizard of oz]

The right of citizen's arrest is an option but not neccessarily the smartest thing to do depending on the circumstances. From what I have read, I think those folks who were killed made some serious errors of judgement but certainly nothing to justify murder.

 

[SalTx]

I have never, and would never, talk trash to someone with a gun on them. Even If I had one on me. And if you do, you had better be prepared to beat his draw. It's not so much about being "justified"..what did it get these guys. Wasn't worth it. My cent.

 

[Ryder]

Things sure have changed. On the farm I grew up on we had no fences, no signs, and no problems. Well there was one guy who tried riding his Harley through the back forty one Spring. His penalty for traspassing? His bike had to stay stuck in mud up to it's handlebars until the ground dried enough to dig it out. Gramps wasn't firing up the tractor for no trespasser.


Now I have my own property. No fences, no signs, no problems. Makes it hard to participate in this discussion other than to say I feel people should be able to do anything they want or don't want on their property.

 

[TallPine]

Now I have my own property. No fences, no signs, no problems.

Well, you are fortunate, then

 

[SteveS]

In my CCW class we learned that committing a radical action like attempting a citizens arrest would most likely lead to a very expensive and ultimately futile test case with the result being bankruptcy and imprisonment. But hey, knock yourself out.

I am not saying that it is a good or bad idea and like another poster said, you don't have to. If you instructor is presenting it this way, then s/he is not a good instructor, IMO.

Test case?!?!? Citizen's arrest, in most states, is statutory and there is hundreds of years of case law. This is hardly a new area in jurisprudence.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I am not saying that it is a good or bad idea and like another poster said, you don't have to. If you instructor is presenting it this way, then s/he is not a good instructor, IMO.

Test case?!?!? Citizen's arrest, in most states, is statutory and there is hundreds of years of case law. This is hardly a new area in jurisprudence.

Hey, like I said, knock yourself out. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[Charles S]

I really cannot believe this discussion has not concluded.

The case was decided by a jury.

Charles