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Hollow points

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Malckom, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. Malckom

    Malckom Member

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    Can you take new new FMJ ammo and use a step drill in a drill press and make hollow point ammo ?
     
  2. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    You can.....................I wouldn't.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    No.

    To do so will result in a lead slug inside a copper tube open at both ends.

    If the lead slug blows out, the jacket will remain in the bore.

    All jacketed bullets are closed either on the base, like HP & SP, or closed on the nose, like FMJ.

    Besides that, a FMJ jacket is too thick to allow expansion, even if you did drill it out.

    rc
     
  4. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    Full metal jacket bullets usually have a thicker jacket then HP have. You can drill them but they won't mushroom like a real HP because the jacket is to strong to promote it.

    I took some 30cal Sierra Match grade 168 gr bullet which has an open tip anyways, machined the open area off the tip to expose the lead and drilled them to make hollow points.

    I put a Sears catalog (one of the old thick ones) against a oak 4x4 post and shot it at 100yds, the bullet went through the catalog, through the oak post and barely made an exit hole.

    Yes, you can make one into a hollow point but it won't mushroom.
     
  5. Malckom

    Malckom Member

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    That is what I figured ! If R C say's don't that's more than good enough for me !!!
     
  6. 4895

    4895 Member

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    Hollow Point bullets by design have a series of "petals" to aide in expansion unlike a FMJ. If you drill a hole in a FMJ, all you have done is reduce the weight of the projectile.
     
  7. oldpapps

    oldpapps Member

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    A story that sticks in my mind from long ago... Can't vouch for the validity of this, but....

    The British were in India, some officers wanted to hunt some tigers, knowing that the British 303 rounds were full metal jackets and would not stop a tiger, shoot through, yes. Some one with pull got the Dumdum Arsenal to chop the tips off for a batch of 303 British rounds. Flat point with exposed lead core, looks good, that should do it. Results were the lead core shot out leaving the jacket in the bore for the next round to not fair well.

    This was an explanation for the name of 'dumdum' bullets back in the 70s.

    Practical matter, accuracy would be shot. Pun intended.

    Be safe,
     
  8. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Thought about it but than I got scared thinking about it. I even have a mini lathe and I just aint going there.
     
  9. Fire_Moose

    Fire_Moose Member

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  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Mmmmm?

    That link goes to a bullet swaging die set.

    Yes, you can swage HP half jacket bullets with it.

    But the "cup" you put the lead "core" in is still closed on the back end.

    It isn't a hollow tube open at both ends like a drilled-out FMJ would be.

    rc
     
  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    oldpapps,

    The British Dum Dum bullet, designed by Captain Bertie Clay, was meant for shooting Afghans, not tigers. It did not work very well because of the thick jacket at the nose. I have not seen reliable reports of them blowing through but it might have happened.

    The British went through a long series of expansive bullets with hollowpoints and/or thinned jackets to improve "stopping power" on savage tribesmen. They said they would keep separate inventories of FMJ for warfare with "civilized nations" in accordance with the Hague Convention but the French and Germans did not swallow that story. So they gave up on the Mk II-VI bullets. And soon after went to the Mk VII spitzer bullet which "tumbled" and made nasty wounds without anybody objecting because everybody was doing much the same thing by then.
     
  12. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    I tested the alteration of FMJ's a long time ago, but I didn't do any drilling. I used a very fine file and filed groves from the tip to about mid olgive, this was meant to weaken the the jacket above the shank allowing for expansion simular to a soft point projectile. It sort of worked, but certainly not anything impressive, or as effective as a soft point projectile.

    GS
     
  13. oldpapps

    oldpapps Member

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    Thanks Jim. I knew that someone would have the straight skinny on it.

    The point is, those were 'factory' experimental loadings and for what ever reason didn't make it. So, I would hesitate at chopping off the nose of a FMC bullet or trying to drill it out.

    I love the correct history. Not just stories told to young cops to try to rationalize 158 grain WW lubaloy lead round nose .38s over those expensive 'Super-Vels'. The county had just gone to 9MMs with RP hollow points, oh my! And the thought of the word 'magnum' and shooting half a mile and killing babies in gram ma's stroller, well that will just not do. :banghead:

    Thanks again,
     
  14. Hondo 60
    • Contributing Member

    Hondo 60 Member

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    Plus anudder to what rcmodel said.

    I wouldn't chance leaving the copper in the barrel.
    It could get REAL ugly.
    Can you say "Kaboom"?
     
  15. edfardos

    edfardos Member

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    center of mass and geometric center would be in different places, no matter how surgical you are with a drill. Accuracy would be very poor imho.. These things spin at 30K rpm.

    edfardos
     
  16. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I have looked at a lot of full metal jacket bullets pulled from live rounds or new FMJ sold for reloading. The base is open to allow insertion of the lead core. Drilling a hole in the nose big enough to allow expansion on impact does, as others here have warned, create a copper tube with a lead core. The lead core blowing out of such jury rigged hollowpoints, leaving a copper tube in the barrel to obstruct the next bullet, is nnothing I want to tempt fate by trying. Proper hollowpoint bulleted ammo or reloading supplies are not that expensive, and the bases are solid to cup the lead core in the jacket.

    Other points are that, even with plain lead or jacketed softnose bullets, (a) you cannot guarantee that you can drill centered holes and (b) you cannot guarantee you can remove the same amount of lead from each bullet.

    We cannot repeat often enough: most amatuer attempts to make hollowpoint bullets are dangerous or inaccurate or both. The specter of disaster means the potential cost exceeds the marginal benefit.

    BTW, the British .303 anti-personnel round while FMJ has a light weight nose and heavy base, designed to tumble after penetration; the rounds have been used to good effect on game, but being FMJ are usually barred from hunting use under game laws. The Italian 7.35mm rifle bullet was a scaled down copy of the British .303 rifle bullet and under the jacket had an aluminum nose section followed by a lead core body resulting in a bullet that tumbled on impact.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  17. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Didn't know about the 7.35 but it makes sense. They wanted something more effective to shoot at Ethiopians. But they were already in over their heads and the changeover did not stick.

    The Japanese wanted more gun, too, and ended up having to support two infantry rifle rounds.
     
  18. hueyville

    hueyville Member

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    Edfardos, for those that just cannot resist. You chuck the bullet in the press and use a stationary bit. That way, hole self centers even if operator is off a few thousands. The fear of leaving a jacket in the bore is real, especially if overly aggressive removing material. I have done some odd experiments and lived to tell. Shallow hole, epoxy & steel ball bearing was one. No real advantage. Tried using 338 bullets as hosts for sabots to send 7mm bullets down range and more. SS109 penetrators embedded in 44 mag bullets was weird but did work when I used them as cores in certain caliber bullet swaging dies. Wide variety of gas checks and swaging dies are important. My big advantage is a tool room lathe, milling machine, etc. If you saw a movie and have a dewalt drill, pass on these ideas. If you have a machine shop, Personal Ballistics Lab, Ransom Rest and can take time to inspect barrel after every shot experimentation can be fun. If you turn a pet gun into scrap metal the "no crying allowed rule" definitely applies. Out of hundreds of time consuming experiments, maybe half a dozen ideas accomplish a mission store bought bullets won't just a little better. I can have a staff Machinist working to concept drawings and specifications off my CAD software. Once you build your bullet, load info has to be developed. A lot of work for little gain if any.
     
  19. Hard_Cast

    Hard_Cast Member

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    How many cheapy foreign HP's have you guys seen? Every single one that I've caught has been open base. I SERIOUSLY doubt you'd stick a jacket by drilling the nose... and if that's not enough, check out the Winchester Ranger-T's. Long story short, a buddy's dog got shot with one, it hit the tail first and separated. In examining it, the ranger T is also an open base HP. Poor, poor, poor design (saved the dogs life) but these are everyday-use bullets in most jurisdictions. Your not going to shoot core from jacket in my opinion... but whatever fear-mongering keeps people on the right path I guess does us all good.

    Bottom line- why do it? HP bullets are sold bulk, you can cast them, or swage them, or drill out the cast. But there are many better options than these.

    BTW, a lyman case trimmer, cough... happens to accept, cough... a 1/8" drill bit and will let you drill a- gasp!!- LOADED ROUND. For those that were curious how to do it- somewhat- symmetrically.
     
  20. hueyville

    hueyville Member

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    Hardcast, the old style RCBS case trimmed collects will chuck quite nicely in a small hobbiest style milling/drilling/lathe machine aka that Smithy mill your neighbor has in his garage or small professional lathe. I still cut down a lot of rifle cases on my lathe before running through the forming dies.
     
  21. Zeke/PA

    Zeke/PA Member

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    I would advise against altering a bullet in any way.
    A core/ jacket seperation could be a costly lesson.
     
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