Home Defense Questions

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Baldman

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Hi Folks,

Brand new to the site so please be patient. I grew up in a fairly rural area and hunted and fished for many years. Went to college got a job yada, yada, yada, and moved outside of a large city and have been aware from shooting since. With a lot of random violence happening in the city now I fear it may only be a matter of time before it get's closer to my doorstep and that now is the time to relearn how to shoot and safely handle firearms. My original thought was what to purchase but instead I'm going to have the guns from my younger days and a few inherited weapons gone over and start shooting again with them. If you could take a look at my inventory and provide any info I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Baldman

22 revolver (unknown make) - I inherited this from my wife's father & thought it would be a good introduction for her to shooting, is it even worth having based on caliber?

38 Colt Cobra - Another inherited piece from my father in law, looks to be in good working condition, my concern is that I hear a lot about a 38 not having enough stopping power. is it a good choice for home defense?

Winchester 94 30/30 (post 64)- My old "deer" rifle. Since I live in a development is the 30/30 to big to be a useful home defense weapon or are there now rounds on the market that are more or less "restricted" flight?

Ithaca model 66 20 gauge - My 1st gun used for both small game and deer before the 94. Is there still a good use for a single shot shot gun?
 
I would go with the 20ga with #3 Buckshot, and use the Colt for a back-up plan.

Disregard all the Internet BS about a .38 Spl not having enough "stopping power", whatever that is.
Handguns do not have stopping power.
Good bullet placement has stopping power.

I GayRonTee ya if you put three or four .38 Spl 158 grain hollow-points in Attila The Huns chest, he is going down!

If I were to use the 30-30, I would be concerned with over-penetration killing a neighbor.
If I just had to use it, I would use the 125 grain varmint loads from Federal, and not 150 or 170 deer loads.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=927609

If the .22 revolver works, it is invaluable for lots of cheap handgun practice.
And thats the key to proper bullet placement I mentioned above.

rc
 
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Nothing wrong with the 22 revolver. Use what you got; it's way better than harsh words lol. If it functions fine, it could do in a pinch. Great weapon to practice with for sure. It is good that it is a revolver, as this kinda helps with the reliability issues of rimfire ammo. Quality ammo usually is much more reliable, so spend the cash on it if you would possible use it for defense.

38 special, especially with modern bullets will work just fine. Recoil is mild and very manageable. It is also affordable to shoot. I would not worry about stopping power stories; get the placement right and it will be fine. Not sure if your gun is +p rated. If it is, go for that . Some nice defensive ammo, maybe gold dot etc, will work.

30 30 is nothing to sneeze at either. It has put nice holes in quite a few deer for me. It is going to be about ammo choice here. I would stay away from typical hunting rounds (too much penetration) and go for a nice light hollow point/ballistic tip design. Very easy if you are a handloader. Otherwise, hornady and corbon make some good stuff for it.

Single shot 20 gauge would be alright too, but I would prefer to have more than one round. That said, it would work in a pinch.
20 gauge is easy to handle, especially for newer shooters.
 
All of the firearms that you listed should at the least be useable. Of those that you mentioned, I like the revolvers. Revolvers are pretty much idiot proof, especially in situations where it is likely that you will need it when you are least expecting it.

As far as home defense goes, I believe that the use of long guns in a home environment is less than ideal. Of course, if it's all you have then sometimes you have to do what you have to do; but given a choice, I'd opt for a handgun or relatively compact shotgun.

Although I do know that law enforcement and such do use carbines as entry weapons, law enforcement personnel rarely enter into a dangerous close quarters situation without backup. The point that I'm alluding to is that in a close quarters situation wherein it is very likely that an altercation can occur at arms length, a longer and bulkier weapon can be a liability in that it would be easier to have your firearm taken away from you, by an assailant that is bigger/stronger/faster than you are. At least with a handgun or other weapon that can be used one handed, you will hopefully have the opportunity to keep the assailant at arms length with the offhand while you do what you need to with the other.
 
38 special has been putting guys 6 feet under longer than a lot of other rounds. I carry one and have never felt undergunned. Personally it would be my first choice since im not that used to single shot shotty.
 
NOTHING has enough stopping power if you can't hit something vital, with a projectile that penetrates sufficiently to shut down the target.

Given your current situation, the .38 and the 20 gauge are your best bets. Get a couple of speedloaders for the .38, and give this video a look for the 20 ga. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw .

Get yourself up to speed, get your wife started on the .22 and you should be able to hold your own...

lpl
 
With what you have, the 38 and 20ga are your starting points.

HOWEVER, your guns are basically antiques. Nice ones that I would use at the range or perhaps for hunting, but not for self defense. If you can afford it, I would highly recommend a new shotgun for home defense, and a new pistol or revolver for CCW (if you get a permit to carry) and/or nightstand type placement.

The new shotgun can be either 20ga or 12ga, whatever you prefer, and it doesn't need to be expensive - Mossberg would be just fine, as would a lot of other options at $300 and less. Extended 6-9 shot capacity is a plus, but not essential and should be balanced against the 18" barrel that limits capacity to 5-6 shells.

The sidearm can be either pistol or revolver. If you like revolvers and don't plan a lot of practice, I would suggest a new .357 magnum revolver, 6-shot, S&W or Ruger. You can use .38s for practice and defense if you want, but having the option to use .357 magnum is a big plus with little cost in money or usefulness with 38's.

If you intend to practice often, I think semiauto pistols are a better defensive choice due to higher capacity and shorter trigger pull, and that would open a whole new discussion.
 
Wow I thought the 20 ga would be the odd gun out but it looks like the 30/30 is the least useful. I appreciate all the input. Now let me ask something else.

Since the worry of the 30/30 is over penetration what do you think of a lever action in 357/38? It would allow me to use common ammo between my colt and the rifle for simplicity, reduce the risk of over penetration and probably give me more practice time as I'm guessing I could use indoor ranges as well.

Along with the idea that shotguns are a good choice in HD any thoughts on the Taurus Judge? I saw it online last night and initially thought the idea of pistol / shotgun rounds seemed good but is it really practical?

Depending on how the responses come in on the 357/38 I may just trade in the 94 on one of those or trade/sell both the Ithaca & Winchester and pick up a 20 or 12 ga.

Thanks,
Baldman
 
I think your living accomodations and building construction really need to be considered/communicated in order to get the best recommendations. If you live in a small apartment with people living in every direction separated by only 2 pieces of sheetrock, then that is much different than if you live in a house made of cinder blocks and your neighbor's house is 10 yards away of similar construction.

I would not choose a single shot firearm no matter what. With what you have, my opinion is that the Colt Cobra is the best starting point. The devil is in the details...
 
I live in a townhouse community with an attached home on 1 side. The next homes are at least 25 yds from me but all are basic timber frame, stucco, sheet rock,etc.
 
Okay, I'll be the bad guy. All of your guns are non-ideal.

  • Single-shot shotgun: one shot may not do it, and even if you're FAST at reloading, pumping would be faster.
  • Unknown .22: low power, low depedability.
  • Colt Cobra: snubbies are great for concealed carry, but are unnecessarily hard to master for HD. I like lasers on my snubbies, but CTC desn't make any for Colts.
  • Winchester .30-30: over-penetrative. Maybe less so with Federal's 125gr JHP.

Of those, I'd probably take the .30-30. But I'd much prefer a pump (or semi) shotgun, or a duty-sized pistol, or a .223.

Oh: don't forget dogs/alarms/lighting/good locks. Prevention is better than a gunfight.
 
Thanks, good lock, lighting, and alarm system have been in for years. More & more is sounds like I'm either selling or trading in the 30/30. Don't worry about being the bad guy if I had all the answers I wouldn't need to ask for help.
 
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I have seen stucco exteriors trap bullets. Specifically, a neighbor of mine had a negligent discharge in an apartment complex that I once lived in and a 9mm did not penetrate the stucco to exit the building. It made me nervous about the fellow, but it was an interesting eye-opener on the subject of stucco.

If the nearest building is 25 yards away, then I would probably be looking at a 12 gauge shotgun, but that's only IF you are comfortable using the long gun inside. Weapons retention is drastically different between a long gun and a handgun; there are poponents of both sides of the argument. If you decide that a pistol would be best and you are looking at getting something new, then a good ole .45ACP would be my choice. Not too loud, not too much flash, and has been giving bad guys a dirt nap for 100 years now. Also consider the pros & cons of each if you have a child in the home. I have a 10 year old in the house, and a .45 pistol in a small bedside safe is a quicker and more feasible day-to-day option than a long gun next to the bed.

Good luck in your research and shopping endeavors!
 
Everyone has an opinion, may as well give mine too. ;)

Don't get rid of the cobra; you would eventually come to regret it. So far as usage for defense, it might be worth knowing that at least one legendary gunfighter of our time carried one regularly (google Jim Cirillo). Only caveat; with the alloy frame, I would tend towards a standard pressure load, for example this stuff:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=23

This goes especially if your cobra has an unshrouded ejector rod-making it of 50s/60s vintage and maybe 15 oz. (although, truthfully, I run +P through my small frame and air weight frame S&Ws without loosing sleep myself, but opinions vary on the wisdom of that; even then my old Smiths are heavier than that agent snubbie)

I am not one that favors long guns for home defense. Other opinions-some no doubt more qualified than my own-may well differ. I do favor .38 revolvers. Bonus that yours can double duty as a carry gun, if need be. Beware the man who only shoots one gun, and all that.

I would much rather see someone spend money getting some really good training than just up gunning a collection; a cobra in the hands of a determined and competent person gets better betting odds from me than a glock wielded without skill or tactics.

As well, I agree that the .22 is worth keeping as an understudy gun for fun skill building, so long as it works well and has decent sights and a trigger. Cheap practice (and plenty of it) is good.

Just one more random opinion, FWIW.
 
Can't tell you which gun to use. Just some things to consider. Chances are you will the lone defender. Chances are a home invasion will be by multilple assailants. Chances are the assailants will be armed. As a friend told me "nobody ever died from having to many BB's in the magazine". If it turns into a fight rather than just shooing away some bad guy's, more is always better than less. Trying to reload when your being shot at isn't a good thing. Almost any object, regardless of it's design or intended purpose can be used as a weapon. That said, selecting a weapon for self defense should be based on it's usefulnes against bad guy's, not bunnies. Most important of all, get training.
 
Living in an apartment?

A shotgun with birdshot. You do not want that thing punching through walls and hitting innocent people. I would avoid rifles if you can.

And absolutely no single-shots. What if there are multiple invaders? Go buy yourself an inexpensive Maverick 88 shotgun (made by Mossberg). Other than the Made in Mexico plastic fore end and the trigger guard being plastic, it's a true Mossberg shotgun.

And that .38spl will work great as a backup and night-time discussion piece.

JUST PRACTICE!
 
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I live in a townhouse community with an attached home on 1 side. The next homes are at least 25 yds from me but all are basic timber frame, stucco, sheet rock,etc.
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First secure your residence and read this thread about attic access. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=550262

Dear old Dad was in his den which the entry way door opened into. The neighborhood was a nice neighborhood but there had been 3 break-ins in the last week when people were at work. Dad had placed his single shot 16 gage next to his favorite chair on a whim that very morning. There was a knock on the front door and Dad thought it was the delivery guy leaving a package he had been waiting on. In no hurry he got up and just about the time he stood up his front door came crashing in. A really big guy capable of busting the door frame and door with a well placed kick was half way in the door before he heard dad let out his best war cry as he raised the old 16 gage. The guy fell backwards and ran to an old car that was running and sitting by the curb with a driver.

This happened almost 20 years ago! Was it Dad's voice or the shot gun? I think they caught the animals a few days later. They were just a smash and grab couple who had turned to a life of crime to tide things over.

Not all robbers are blood thirsty, and not every encounter ends in shots being fired. The long gun in that situation probably worked better than a pistol because it was big and easily seen. I do know when Dad yelled at me and I was young I also wanted to run away!

If it is a determined mob who wants in then good luck with what ever your choice; more shots available sure makes sense to me. If your present or future wife has the mind set to be your back up even better. I am not going to recommend what I think you should use. I think you and your wife should use whatever you can place rounds on target with; present or future. Good luck and let us hope you prepare for something that you never have to face.
 
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much research, little experience

FWIW, after much research and -- fortunately -- no experience, I settled on Mossberg 500 with 00 buckshot for its combination of economy, power (without overpenetration), versatility (handgrip, shoulder stock), serious look (if the BGs ever get one), and (expandable) capacity. This is bedside. At point of purchase, Academy had the best price, but Walmart is often competitive. You can get a good used one if you (or a trusted friend) know what you are looking for, but new ones are not prohibitively expensive.

Also close at hand: RIA 1911 .45 ACP and S&W 1917 revolver, also .45 ACP, with plastic full moon grips (these weapons conveniently share a caliber). These are chosen for the force of the .45, good capacity (8 in the 1911, 6 in the 1917), and ease/speed of reloading.

On hip or in pocket: Colt Detective Special in .38 sp., chosen for its good combination of capacity (6) and concealability (it's my EDC/CCW). Most of my handguns are "antiques," to quote an earlier poster, but have all been checked out by competent gunsmiths and proven at the range for reliability and accuracy.

For you, if cost is a crucial factor, I would at least keep the .22 for practice, as others wisely suggested, as long as you have it checked out for safety and reliability (given its unknown make), and I would sell, trade, save up, or otherwise procure some type of pump shotgun. I agree with the posters who counsel against single-shot weapons and rifles for HD. I think the Cobra is a keeper too, for it is powerful, compact, and versatile.

Be safe, and thanks for posting.

Derry
 
I am a rifle type of guy, so I'd suggest an SKS, AK, Mini-14, or Mosin-Nagant M44. A 20Ga shotgun isn't the best solution unless you're firing slugs, and using a handgun under pressure is hard.
 
using a handgun under pressure is hard.
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For whom? This is a broad generalization.

Even if you are a rifle type of guy, his place of residence would suggest a round with less chance of over penetration is preferable. Thats the cool thing about putting our own preferences aside...we are able to and make helpful suggestions based on scenarios different than our own.

I would definintely use the cobra and the 20 gauge with some #4 shot.
 
With a lot of random violence happening in the city now I fear it may only be a matter of time before it get's closer to my doorstep...
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I'm all for being vigilant and believe all people should be able to defend themselves, family and property. However, in reality cheeseburgers are a far greater risk to one's life than violent crime. In 2010 PA had 46,514 violent crimes committed. When one considers there are over 12.7 million people in the state that is only 0.36% of the population being the victim of a violent crime. Even less when one considers that many of those crimes were against people as result of their wilful invovlement in criminal activities.
 
...and using a handgun under pressure is hard.
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I'll second what HGUNHUNTER said about that.

Using any gun under pressure is a skill that must be practiced. Conventional wisdom says that the average un- or modestly-trained shooter will get more hits, faster, with a long arm than with a handgun. I don't know for sure, and I suspect it depends a lot on the shooter.

But my experience has shifted so heavily in the last 15 years or so to handguns that I'm probably at a ratio of somewhere between 100:1 and 1,000:1 firing handgun rounds to rifle or shotgun rounds in practical scenarios. Inside of 20 yds, I can't possibly make better hits, faster, with a long-gun than I do with a handgun. The speed of tracking, follow-up shots, and transitions, plus the mobility and flexibility of the handgun make it the favored option for me. And I have faith that .45ACP, 9mm, and .44Spc./Mag. will be as practically effective as I need.

So I say a defensive-minded person (mindset here is the key!) can use either type of weapon effectively -- they're going to need lots of training and good practice in any case -- and they should choose whichever they're most comfortable handling and shooting. If a lady prefers a .38 Spc. revolver to a pump shotgun because it doesn't punish her to shoot it and she thinks its small size fits her better, FINE. She can learn to defend herself with that just as effectively as she could a long-gun.
 
Posted by Baldman: With a lot of random violence happening in the city now I fear it may only be a matter of time before it get's closer to my doorstep and that now is the time to relearn how to shoot and safely handle firearms.
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While the question had to do with home defense, the risk of a violent criminal attack occurring outside the home is probably more significant.

In Tom Given's DVD Lessons from the Street, Tom points out that most of the graduates of Rangemaster who have been involved in self defense incidents were attacked out doors.

It is true that the chance that anyone will need to resort to deadly force on any given day is far less than remote.

The likelihood that a person will be physically assaulted at least once during one's lifetime, however, is far higher, approaching one in two for a twelve year old and diminishing to inconsequential numbers for the elderly. That, of course, does not mean that everyone who is a victim of such an assault will not survive without resorting to deadly force.

The chance that one will ever have to resort to deadly force during one's lifetime is probably only somehat greater than remote. However, the potential consequences of being viciously attacked and not having the means to defend oneself are extremely severe, and that is the factor that causes most of us to carry a firearm.

So--if the OP may lawfully carry a firearm for self defense, and should he or she elect to do so, the Colt Cobra is the only viable choice for that application.

For home defense, one has to evaluate the layout of the home, consider where the defensive weapon would be kept, if it is not to be carried on one's person, and how the defender would get to it.

It is probably not very prudent to assume that a violent break in will necessarily occur when the defender is in the bedroom.
 
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Hey Folks,

First let me say thanks for all the info both on this thread and the other threads I've been reading not easy to catch up on all that's been happening since I've been away from shooting.

My thought process is this:
Sell / Trade in my 30/30 & 20 gauge.

I don't see myself doing much, if any hunting in the near future so I was thinking of getting a .38/.357 lever action carbine (Winchester / Marlin / Rossi / etc) which would reduce the length of the gun. It can also mitigate the issue of over penetration. If I do get a chance to hunt larger game I feel the .357 should do fine 100 yds & closer (I don't see myself taking a shot much longer then that safely). It basically becomes an all purpose gun that I can use @ indoor ranges and can share some ammo w/ my Colt.

The 20 gauge is heading out because of the length,the fact that it is a single shot and again small hunting is not in my near future. To replace it I was going to get a semi auto 22lr like a Marlin 795 to allow me to get some range time cheaply.

I'm also planning on taking a handgun class before I start shooting the Colt.

Thx
Baldman
 
Are you going to have easy access to the long gun? You might be better off with a more appropriate(than the Cobra) home defense handgun than a long gun. Also the .357 rifle is going to penetrate a lot. It's not going to "mitigate the issue of over penetration." From gel tests the 125 grain .30-30 load doesn't penetrate much more than 00 buck. I have a Marlin .357 and I like it, but it's not much more compact(2 1/2 inches to be exact) than a 20 inch .30-30. .357 Marlins are also going to be expensive, not sure about the other brands.

I'd probably keep what you have and start shooting. Then you might have a better idea of what will serve you well and buy accordingly.
 
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