home defense shot gun

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I know they're kind of pricey but I'm very happy with my "Judge". I'm from the school of "Keep it simple stupid" and I don't think anyone can argue with a revolver being simple.
Considering a high stress, adrenaline rush, out of a sound sleep situation at 2:00 am you can't beat the "Cock,Lock,and Rock" of a revolver.
 
I agree totally with Mr. Lapin and Mr. McCracken.

I have several guns that I am proficient with and one that is a dedicated HD gun.
I could, in a pinch, utilize any of my shotguns but try to have one for if the bad guy comes a callin'.
 
AZ98.....
I am really liking the fnh slp, though it is a bit pricey. any other suggestions?

My shooting buddy just picked up a Winchester SX2 about a month ago. The SX2 is the same as the FNH SLP Mark1.....except for the name on it. (made by the same company)

He paid $600 for it. It was lightly used at best. On its first trip to the range, it ran every bit as well.
 
How many shots are you going to need? It's a shotgun at semi close range, I doubt you'd need more then one shot. Just racking the slide is probably more then enough.

Hardly. A reasonable person might have a moment of pause when they hear a pump gun being racked; The problem is, a reasonable person wouldn't be breaking into my home with me in it.
 
How many shots are you going to need? It's a shotgun at semi close range, I doubt you'd need more then one shot. Just racking the slide is probably more then enough.

It's not the number of shots so much but the timeframe you may end up needing them in, and if those quick repeat shots are needed then a semiauto pretty much eliminates the very real possibility of short stroking under stress.

And I wouldn't count on racking the slide to settle the matter.
 
ok, so the general consensus seems to be forget the auto loader and go with a pump instead, seeming to be from the reliability stand point more than anything else. pistol grips a waist, ok, never even held one, but I will go with that. I think it needs to be addressed, that while simple is usually better, a pump has failed in my hands. (I have shot more than a few of them) whether it just be from needing cleaned or plain and simple malfunction, but it has happened. I do still want shorter overall length, for the maneuverability.
in address to the question "how many shots do you need?" well assuming there is more than one intruder, I suppose I could kindly ask them to stand one behind the other so I could conserve ammunition.
lets be realistic here, there is no denying the fact that you can fire MUCH more rapid successive shot with an auto loader than a pump. Target acquisition is your only real limiting time factor. BAM BAM BAM seems better to me than BAM click click BAM click click BAM.
obviously if I were to get a semi auto and it didn't prove reliable, no doubt I would use something else that is. Considering all those facts if everyone still thinks a pump is a better choice,than I will go along with it.
Lee, Those are wonderfully informative and intelligent posts. if I might ask, obviously you know your shotguns, how often might you expect a misfire or misfeed with your semi autos you mentioned? Needless to say I have had plenty of experience with pumps and a fair amount with double barrels and over/under's but I literally have never fired an auto loading shotgun. MY father owns an A5, and to my knowledge he has never had an issue with it.
 
Autoloader or pump...doesn't really matter if they're both reliable. Get some good instruction and practice with it.

If I have a choice though, I'll take an autoloader...I've seen too many cops short stroke a pump in firearms training, and that's with little or no stress.

I took an old Remington Model 11, shot the heck out of it to insure reliability and cut the barrel to 18". Total cost for the whole project including ammo...$275.00.
 
Short answer. Remington 870 in a police or Wingmaster grade with and 18 1/2 inch smooth bore tube.

Or a Mossberg 500 in the same configuration.

A lot of the type of defensive shells you might use and range time.

Read Massad Ayoobs " Street Survival" and heed what the elder statesmen on this board say.

Lastly. Pray you don't EVER have to use a gun in anger, but be prepared to do so if you have to.

My 2 cents.:)
 
i know the 870 is more popular and the mossberg too,but my 70"s 1200 winchester police/riot 18.5 barrell,is still going strong,real reliable,fires and ejects anything 23/4, no 3" well worth 150.00 in my book ,i spent on her.
 
Two more things to consider:
1) Every adult in your home must be proficient with your home defense weapon. You just might not be at home when trouble occurs. My wife is not an avid shooter that is why I opt for the very simple revolver design(Taurus Judge loaded with 3" 000 buck) 5 round capacity and can be squeezed off faster than any pump gun. The Judge is also small enough to fit in a secured and handy gun safe, in case there are children in the house.
2) I've heard way to often that the RACK-RACK sound of chambering a round in a pump is some kind of deterrent. Get that idea out of your head, you are not trying to get an intruder's attention and scare him away, you're trying to kill him. The slight hesitation caused by you waiting for an intruder's reaction to your racking a round might get you killed. The round should be racked the next second after picking up the gun not when you see the intruder. Assume the intruder is armed cocked and locked. While you're trying to scare him with RACK-RACK he might be shooting at you.
 
Rem model 1100 Tac4, two of my cousins use these and they've both been good. I like how they handle though I'm a pump fan myself. In the hundreds of rounds I've seen run through them they've been 100% and my cousins report 100% reliability. The removable choke is nice as well. Davidson's lists it at $985 but $800 brought the two I'm familiar with.
 
lets be realistic here, there is no denying the fact that you can fire MUCH more rapid successive shot with an auto loader than a pump.

This statement is flat out wrong, and even a little searching on youtube or this board would show you video evidence of that. But I forgot, you only have time to write long and uninformed posts, not to use the search function...
 
I only have 1 pump shotgun and it's an old Stevens that has been handed down from my Grandfather. I bought a Beretta 1201FP with the combo stock (butt/pistol grip) back in the early 90's for home defense and have shot quite a few rounds thru it even steel plate side matches and it has never failed to fire. It is 100% stock and has no extra weight hanging off it. I like the stock because I can hold a flashlight in 1 hand and still get off a fairly accurate one handed shot if needed. Whatever you choose, practice is key and if your shotgun has any shortcomings they will show up then. I have heard people say these aren't reliable if you add accessories on them and I haven't tried for myself. I choose to keep it as it was designed.
 

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I used the first Model 10A I had on security details for a couple of years, ran it a great deal in practice, and never had a single malfunction with it. The current one is a replacement, I sold the original to my main client and always regretted letting it go, so I bought another one recently. I used the 1100 as my 3-gun shotgun, and likewise shot it a lot in practice and in matches, and never had it malfunction at all. I used the Benelli some in 3-gun as well, and likewise never had any problems with it. The 11-87 is a hunting shotgun, but I got a smoothbore rifle sighted 'deer' barrel for it too. It's only been fired as a field gun hunting doves, or in practice, but it's never malfunctioned.

The other semiautos are either antiques used for demonstration/experimentation/study, or are relatively new additions to the 'family' and are still being tested and evaluated.

lets be realistic here, there is no denying the fact that you can fire MUCH more rapid successive shot with an auto loader than a pump

You must not have ever seen anyone good with a pumpgun at work, then. There's no practical difference in how fast a good shot with a pumpgun can hit, and in how fast a good shot with a semiauto can hit. We're talking HITTING here, not just converting ammo to noise. And only hits count. Remember- "You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight."

With a gas-operated semi, there may be an appreciable advantage in felt recoil reduction, but that's about it. With good maintenance and good ammo, reliability in any repeating shotgun either semi or pump these days is so close to equal not to be an issue. Pumps have an advantage in that they can fire loads that will not cycle a semiauto, pumps are usually a bit simpler in operation than a semi. And good pumps are almost always much more affordable than good semiautos.

Most malfunctions with a pump are caused by short stroking the action, which is an operator error and not the fault of the gun. Operator errors are repairable by proper training and practice.

If you WANT a semiauto, BUY a semiauto, but GET A GOOD ONE. Don't try to go cheap- it will most likely be money wasted.

Why do we (my wife and I) use pumps? Because we prefer them, we both use the same 'house guns' which are set up to fit her (she's 5'4 and I'm 6'3"). We're both trained and experienced with pumpguns. If we ever do have to use one of the house guns for real, chances are it'll spend a few months in an evidence locker and we won't miss a $150 used 870 with another $150-200 of factory short barrel (18-20"), premium recoil pad, light/mount and Sidesaddle on it. There are a couple more just like it in the safe if needed.

hth,

lpl
 
a vast array of knowledge from posters such as "zombieoutfitters". oh my.



















listen to Dave Mccracken and Lee. They know. Beware of anyone telling you what shiny new model to get and not knowing why. The truth is, they DON'T know. The first and only thing they ever learned about firearms they learned at the multi-plex. You need to get out and shoot for yourself first and foremost.
 
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I have been thrilled with the Mossberg TALO edition I picked up last fall. No problems what so ever and definitely the shotgun I want if the SHTF. 18" barrel, ammo storage on the stock, collapsible stock, door breacher "standoff" barrel. It's the "balls".



there was an image of a mall ninja here. i took it down so i could take The High Road. :D
 
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This statement is flat out wrong, and even a little searching on youtube or this board would show you video evidence of that. But I forgot, you only have time to write long and uninformed posts, not to use the search function...

I disagree, a really slick pumpgun and shooter combo may be able to outrun an older tech autoloader, under ideal circumstances, but not so much with a lot of the newer stuff, which is insanely fast cycling.
 
I'm going to light a fire and put myself in the middle of it. Captainawesome was asking about home defense not the cycle rate comparison between a pump and an auto. Reliability is certainly an issue but simplicity is the foundation to reliability. I'd like to see the forum get back on task and discuss the real life issues of home defense and the best hardware to affect that.
 
Even before I got the chance to put many shells through my Mossberg 500 Cruiser I worked the slide enough to get the feel of it a bit. Of course I know it's different in actually loading. Even with shotguns the key imo is PRACTICE. It's important to get the "feel" of the weapon being used until it almost becomes second nature. While I may have firearms that are better suited for certain situations, I still have a habit if reaching for the one I'm more familiar and comfortable with. And it certainly doesn't hurt to go over possible scenarios and ask yourself "what if" and practice that as well. Be ready and at least try to develop a learned response and pattern of behavior. Even then, things may not go as planned but it increases your chances. JMO
 
ok,
At two particular members who have posted on this thread, I don't recall it being acceptable to jab and hit below the belt on this forum. maybe I am wrong, but I don't appreciate the flaming of me or the other posters putting there two cents worth on this thread.
I will take the advice because you seem to know what you are talking about, but leave out the sarcasm and snide comments.Yes I was in a hurry the first post, and yes I am uninformed. that's why I am asking. If I already knew what I was talking about I wouldn't have started this thread. No I didn't want to wade through tons of threads forums and reviews looking for specific information on the reliability of specific models of semiauto shotguns. Especially when I have such an excellent resource of knowledgeable people right here.Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. And I might add that not a single person here has posted a link to any other thread like this (with the exception of dave mckracken alluding to the fighting shotguns one). This seems to be rather popular thread, so let it go.

To the guys with the judges, I was looking into those as well, but read that even the buck shot doesn't penetrate like it should to be a man stopper. As I recall it made it 8 inches in as apposed to the minimum Commonly accepted 12. I don't recall which version of the judge that was though(barrel length or cylinder length), maybe the 3" chamber with the longer barrels would do better? anyone shed some light on this?

Lee, another great point and very true. A quick follow up shot is only useful if accurately placed.With my pump it takes me approximately two seconds from the first claybird shot to knock out the second. if I go any faster than that its a craps shoot. the same might be true with an auto loader. So here is my plan. Tell me what you all think.

I am going to buy that cheap Remington import for $290 shipped new (a smokin deal from what I have seen). Practice with it to see how I like it and get familiar with a semi auto. Practice on some different types of targets that replicate a HD situation better. After a couple cases of shells, compare my speed and accuracy with my semi auto vs my tried and true pump. if I can really see no difference in speed, I will definitely buy a devoted pump for HD. If I am quicker with an autoloader, I will save up for a good one. In either case I will use my Anaconda 44 in the mean time.

Another question though, I have heard of springs in magazines losing there strength wen left with ammo in them for long periods of time causing misfeeds, just heard not seen myself. Is there truth to this? and can the same thing happen to a pump or auto loading shotgun?

ADDED: thank you very much Pancho.
 
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Captain, You are so very welcome. My experience with the Judge is merely practical in nature. To test the penetration of the 2 3/4", 410 round, with 000 buck I shot a hardcover book that was 1 1/2" thick at 10 feet. The result was that each pellet penetrated to the back cover, to me that is great penetration without the through penetration that can occur with big hot rounds. I think that statistics will bear me out that home defense combat happens at very close range and that the energy of a round should be expended in the intended target.
Oh, by the way. If life isn't complicated enough, remember that under the best of situations the police will confiscate your firearm and hold it until the courts deem that the shooting was justified. So the weapon must be lethal, reliable, simple, compact, securable, and affordable enough and or impervious to corrosion to be shuffled about in a police property room uncleaned until they think it's time to return it to you.
Ain't life grand?
 
One last statement, If you haven't taken a CC course please do so. You don't have to carry to benefit from the course. The NRA shows a great video on the practical means of protecting your domain. I took the course quite a while ago and it taught me a lot. 10 years ago I had a false alarm at my house in the middle of the night and found out, through the course, that I did everything wrong.
 
I was wondering about the springs losing their strength in magazines myself. I was told this is true by a lot of people concerning some pistols, but have yet to see any comments about this issue with shotguns.? I'll be firing mine a lot, but I'm sure when I feel I've practiced enough and the "new" wears off for me, it will end up just resting next to my bed against the wall for weeks at a time.
 
If I needed a short shotgun for HD I'd consider a SxS Coach gun. Personally I don't need anything that short.
 
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