Home defense - shotgun and which handgun?
- Thread starter strpar
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Use the same gun if possible
If you and your wife are going to have carry permits, I would advise that you go for a mid size 9m.m. semi-auto pistol like the GLOCK 19, WALTHER P-99 or if you prefer a metal gun, then the SIG 228 or 229. I have had good results with all of these guns as well as the BERETTA 92 Compact which is no longer in production.
If you want something smaller that can still fulfill the home defense role, I also like the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD Sub-Compact. For concealed carry, you can use the 13 round mags with the larger 16 round mags for home defense. I have found that PEARCE EXTENDERS make the smaller mags easier to use for average size males.
While the revolver is often recommended for its simplicity, you should consider the negative trade-offs.
You will be getting a weapon with a MUCH SMALLER AMMO CAPACITY.
If you are separated from you shotgun, you also may not have a RELOAD handy. I COLT PYTHON that has fired all six rounds is just an unloaded gun.
I recommend the 9m.m. over the .40 S&W or .45ACP because of the lower recoil. This is especially important as the gun gets smaller.
Besides, you already have a shotgun if you need more power.
A mid size like the GLOCK 19, P-99 or 228 is small enough to be carried concealed with a still adequate ammo capacity and good control. Recoil is the biggest problem with compact handguns.
I would recommend that you go to a range and rent these guns or something of similar size to see if they work for you.
Also, remember that your wife may not like the same gun as you depending on her physical size and interest or experience with handguns. Don't put her off be trying to decide for her. Also, avoid treating her like a weaking.
After trying about a dozen guns for feel, my ex-wife and I went to the range and the gun she liked most was the most powerful, a SIG-225.
The grip was small enough for her to get a good hold, while the trigger, recoil and sights were just right.
She had formally shot a GLOCK 19, but as she got older, the recoil of the 19 (which is about half a pound lighter than the SIG 225 became a problem). The 225 is just right as it is compact enough to conceal if needed and a faster reload and high magazine capacity than a 5 shot .38 with much better control and a more powerful found.
Hope this helps,
Jim
If you and your wife are going to have carry permits, I would advise that you go for a mid size 9m.m. semi-auto pistol like the GLOCK 19, WALTHER P-99 or if you prefer a metal gun, then the SIG 228 or 229. I have had good results with all of these guns as well as the BERETTA 92 Compact which is no longer in production.
If you want something smaller that can still fulfill the home defense role, I also like the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD Sub-Compact. For concealed carry, you can use the 13 round mags with the larger 16 round mags for home defense. I have found that PEARCE EXTENDERS make the smaller mags easier to use for average size males.
While the revolver is often recommended for its simplicity, you should consider the negative trade-offs.
You will be getting a weapon with a MUCH SMALLER AMMO CAPACITY.
If you are separated from you shotgun, you also may not have a RELOAD handy. I COLT PYTHON that has fired all six rounds is just an unloaded gun.
I recommend the 9m.m. over the .40 S&W or .45ACP because of the lower recoil. This is especially important as the gun gets smaller.
Besides, you already have a shotgun if you need more power.
A mid size like the GLOCK 19, P-99 or 228 is small enough to be carried concealed with a still adequate ammo capacity and good control. Recoil is the biggest problem with compact handguns.
I would recommend that you go to a range and rent these guns or something of similar size to see if they work for you.
Also, remember that your wife may not like the same gun as you depending on her physical size and interest or experience with handguns. Don't put her off be trying to decide for her. Also, avoid treating her like a weaking.
After trying about a dozen guns for feel, my ex-wife and I went to the range and the gun she liked most was the most powerful, a SIG-225.
The grip was small enough for her to get a good hold, while the trigger, recoil and sights were just right.
She had formally shot a GLOCK 19, but as she got older, the recoil of the 19 (which is about half a pound lighter than the SIG 225 became a problem). The 225 is just right as it is compact enough to conceal if needed and a faster reload and high magazine capacity than a 5 shot .38 with much better control and a more powerful found.
Hope this helps,
Jim
easyg
Member
Shotguns are great for home defense....but you're not likely to have your shotgun at hand when a threat presents itself.
What you need is a handgun that you can carry all day, every day.
This means you will want a small and relatively light-weight handgun.
But you still need a powerful enough caliber to quickly stop an attacker, and as much capacity as reasonable, all in a handgun that is easy to shoot accurately.
I recommend a polymer-frame compact or sub-compact 9mm autoloader.
Just a few candidates:
Glock 26
Glock 19
Ruger SR9 compact
S&W M&P9 compact
SA XD9 compact
SA XDm9 compact
SA XD9 sub-compact
Beretta PX4 sub-compact
I would advise against a revolver only because of the very limited capacity.
Consider the worse case scenario....a home invasion by several men while you're separated from your shotguns.
All you have is the gun on your hip.
Do you really want that one gun to be a 5 or 6 shot revolver when facing three or more intruders?
I'm not bashing revolvers.
I own several myself.
But for a home defense handgun I just don't think that 5 or 6 shots is enough.
easyrider604
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
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- 735
If you are like most ordinary law abiding citizens, the chance of being assaulted at home by 6 fully armed and determined assassins is nil. A 6 - 7 shot 4 inch Smith and Wesson L frame .357 mag stoked with 38 spl +P hollow points plus a spare speedloader should be fine. Remember that your most important weapon is your mind, the gun is simply a tool. One or two well placed shots should end a fight.
If you are on the Witness Protection Program because you testified against a major drug dealer and he has a contract out on you, that is a totally different scenario requiring way more firepower.
My opinion only, of course.
If you are on the Witness Protection Program because you testified against a major drug dealer and he has a contract out on you, that is a totally different scenario requiring way more firepower.
My opinion only, of course.
easyg
Member
I'm not talking about 6 "assassins".
It could just be three armed thugs.
Home invasions do happen all the time across this land.
Just do a quick search of the news....
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic...ark-police-investigate-home-invasion-branding
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/police-courts/police-blotter/article308884.ece
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/jan/10/101149/robbers-use-2-by-4-with-nails-in-pasco-home-invasi/
http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-invasion-100111,0,2690268.story
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=13827828
http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2925977
http://www.ksat.com/news/26454553/detail.html
http://www.gazette.net/stories/01102011/prinnew110602_32561.php
http://missionlocal.org/2011/01/home-invasion-on-hampshire-and-24th/
http://romenews-tribune.com/view/fu...e-home-invasion?instance=home_news_lead_story
http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/113234939.html
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/...id=450&articleid=20110109_11_A18_Ahsada398597
http://wsau.com/news/articles/2011/jan/07/police-investigating-early-morning-home-invasion-w/
http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2011/January/11/NbT_homeInvas-11Jan11.htm
http://www.sequoyahcountytimes.com/...-for-home-invasion?instance=home_news_bullets
Wishful thinking at best.
Easy
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I agree that generally, a revolver will do. Right now revolvers are the only handguns I own and I'm not concerned about not being adequately armed. If you like them, fine with me.
But I also don't get why anyone would specifically rule out a good semi-auto handgun for home defense. I've had some bad luck with several guns, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a known reliable semi-auto for that purpose. I've also seen some used Ruger semi-autos lately for the price you'd pay for a used Taurus revolver. I've also never seen one of these used K-frame S&W .38 or .357 revolvers I hear suggested for less than $300 in my area. I believe they exist in some places, but for the $240 - $260 price range, a used Ruger semi-auto 9mm with 15 or more rounds in the magazine just has them beat too. And if you're buying new, I'm seeing S&W M&P semi-autos for about the same price as a new Ruger GP-100.
But I also don't get why anyone would specifically rule out a good semi-auto handgun for home defense. I've had some bad luck with several guns, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a known reliable semi-auto for that purpose. I've also seen some used Ruger semi-autos lately for the price you'd pay for a used Taurus revolver. I've also never seen one of these used K-frame S&W .38 or .357 revolvers I hear suggested for less than $300 in my area. I believe they exist in some places, but for the $240 - $260 price range, a used Ruger semi-auto 9mm with 15 or more rounds in the magazine just has them beat too. And if you're buying new, I'm seeing S&W M&P semi-autos for about the same price as a new Ruger GP-100.
hirundo82
Member
The below advice is for choosing a home-defense handgun. The approach for a carry gun is similar, but size also factors in.
The best approach is:
1) Decide what caliber handgun you are comfortable with using for self-defense. For some it is nothing smaller than .45; others are comfortable using .380 or smaller. Personally (and this is a pretty common opinion), if I'm going to be using it as a defense gun I want it to be at least 9mm (for semiautos) or .38 special (for revolvers).
2) With your wife, go to a range that has lots of guns to rent. Hold a bunch to see which feel best in your hands, and shoot a few of those that you like best.
3) Buy the gun (or guns if you each want one) that you and your wife shoot the best and practice with it a lot. Make sure it is reliable (100-200 rounds without a failure) with the quality hollowpoint that you will keep it loaded with.
The best approach is:
1) Decide what caliber handgun you are comfortable with using for self-defense. For some it is nothing smaller than .45; others are comfortable using .380 or smaller. Personally (and this is a pretty common opinion), if I'm going to be using it as a defense gun I want it to be at least 9mm (for semiautos) or .38 special (for revolvers).
2) With your wife, go to a range that has lots of guns to rent. Hold a bunch to see which feel best in your hands, and shoot a few of those that you like best.
3) Buy the gun (or guns if you each want one) that you and your wife shoot the best and practice with it a lot. Make sure it is reliable (100-200 rounds without a failure) with the quality hollowpoint that you will keep it loaded with.
easyrider604
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- Mar 28, 2008
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- 735
easyg, I read through most of your links on home invasions. If I lived, or if the OP lives in areas where home invasions are prevalent, and there are usually multiple perpetrators in such home invasions, I agree a 357/38 revolver is not the ideal SD/HD weapon. I doubt if any weapon would work due to the manner these home invasions are executed and the victims are caught by surprise.
If I lived in a high risk neighborhood with no chance of moving out, I will first train and condition my mind...which is really your best weapon...
I will never open my door to strangers. I will only open my door or leave the house with my strong hand holding a cocked and locked 1911 45 acp and my left hand will cover the pistol with a newspaper. I will secure the property with lights, triple locked reinforced hinged steel doors, window bars....wait... On second thought, I'll just get out of Dodge.
If I lived in a high risk neighborhood with no chance of moving out, I will first train and condition my mind...which is really your best weapon...
I will never open my door to strangers. I will only open my door or leave the house with my strong hand holding a cocked and locked 1911 45 acp and my left hand will cover the pistol with a newspaper. I will secure the property with lights, triple locked reinforced hinged steel doors, window bars....wait... On second thought, I'll just get out of Dodge.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Good advice. Hiowever many people don't have the option of moving -- they might be stuck with a house whose value has fallen below the mortgage level, for example.
Two things have not been discussed here -- early warning and strengthening the house. Alarms, dogs, and so on will give you time to react. Strong doors, locks, and window bars will delay the entry of intruders (and may deter them, in fact.)
Those two things should be part of any home defense plan, and especially in high crime areas.
Two things have not been discussed here -- early warning and strengthening the house. Alarms, dogs, and so on will give you time to react. Strong doors, locks, and window bars will delay the entry of intruders (and may deter them, in fact.)
Those two things should be part of any home defense plan, and especially in high crime areas.
Fargazer
Member
My suggestion would be to choose something similar or in the same family of pistol that you shoot (or would like to shoot) regularly - in particular, for trigger pull similarity, familiar operation, and magazine compatibility. The more similar your home defense gun is to other guns you regularly shoot, the less fumbling and better performance you will get.
For examples of some gun "families"
For examples of some gun "families"
- the Walther P99 AS (full size) and P99c AS (compact)
- the Walther P99 QA (full size) and P99c QA (compact)
- Glock G17 (full size), G19 (compact), and G26 (sub compact)
- Glock G22 (full size), G23 (compact), and G27 (sub compact)
the judge is a gimmic that does a lot of things but does NOT do any of them well.
follow the good advice of others and select a reputable brand pistol in a common sevice caliber. personally i would suggest a 9mm. low recoil, powerful enough, easy to find ammo, cheap for practice.
follow the good advice of others and select a reputable brand pistol in a common sevice caliber. personally i would suggest a 9mm. low recoil, powerful enough, easy to find ammo, cheap for practice.
BlindJustice
Member
is this turning into a troll... or not
There are lots of examples of Full size / COmpact
of the same model where the smaller model can use
the larger model's magazines.
1911 / Commander / Officers
S&W M&P Long, Service, Compact, to sub-compact
Sig 226 / 229
SPeedloaders
Common among S&W K-frame 6 shot
and 5-shot J-frames
R-
There are lots of examples of Full size / COmpact
of the same model where the smaller model can use
the larger model's magazines.
1911 / Commander / Officers
S&W M&P Long, Service, Compact, to sub-compact
Sig 226 / 229
SPeedloaders
Common among S&W K-frame 6 shot
and 5-shot J-frames
R-
I wouldn't waste any time with the judge, which has no place in a gun collection other than as a novelty and maybe for snakes.
I would recommend either a full frame .38/.357 revolver, such as a S&W 686p or ruger gp100, or a reliable 9mm auto, such as a glock 19 or smith m&p.
I would recommend either a full frame .38/.357 revolver, such as a S&W 686p or ruger gp100, or a reliable 9mm auto, such as a glock 19 or smith m&p.
Samari Jack
Member
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- Nov 16, 2010
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- 278
We were taught in our conceal carry course that most situations involving self defense occur at 10 feet or less, in your home (unless it is a very big one), even on the street. Over 15 feet and you should be looking for other options. Over 20 feet and most likely you won't need a gun as the perps are showing elbows. Over 20 ft and you could be sued. Any range inside or out you have to worry about something like a 357 going through multiple walls, or through the perp and hitting your kids or someone else on the street. I have found that if the gun isn't reasonably light or hide, it stays in the car. My favorite is a Kahr P9. My favorite just to shoot is a Glock 19. It gets carried in the winter but not the summer. We have a 3" chamber Judge but it is just to heavy and to hard to predict where all those pellets are going outside. Inside or from 5-8 ft it would be deadly. Just keep pulling the trigger as each round has 5 triple "0" buckshot. My wife keeps hers on the inside door panel and a Kahr PM 9 in her purse. Inside is a 12 Ga pump with 18" barrel and 3" chamber that can be slam fired though it isn't as accurate as pulling the trigger each time. LE is a totally different situation.
The issue of overpenetration is more dependent on ammuntion type than on the actual caliber. Load a 9mm, .45 ACP or .357 with ammo that doesn't expand and you're shooting through lots of things you don't want to shoot through. Choose your ammo carefully and it becomes less of a concern.
But we haven't heard from the OP in a good long while. Maybe he sorted his problem out.
But we haven't heard from the OP in a good long while. Maybe he sorted his problem out.
Stuff like that almost always happens in middle class or lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. I do not think it's concern for typical resident of Roxbuy CT.
I like 12-gauge pumps (prefer Mossbergs for slide release and safety location) and 4" S&W revolvers, in .357 Magnum loaded with hot .38 special loads.
You and your wife can each get a used S&W K-frame or L-frame. I prefer stainless for ease of upkeep and fixed sights for house distances. Load with 158-grain SWC +P hollowpoints.
IMO the shotgun should be used as an "esconced" weapon, meaning: you stationary at the top of the stairs or end of the hallway protecting your wife in the bedroom.
The revolver is more maneuverable for "bump in the night " situations.
Either way, motion lights, trimmed shrubbery, very secure door and window locks and A DOG OR DOGS should be the first order of business.
You and your wife can each get a used S&W K-frame or L-frame. I prefer stainless for ease of upkeep and fixed sights for house distances. Load with 158-grain SWC +P hollowpoints.
IMO the shotgun should be used as an "esconced" weapon, meaning: you stationary at the top of the stairs or end of the hallway protecting your wife in the bedroom.
The revolver is more maneuverable for "bump in the night " situations.
Either way, motion lights, trimmed shrubbery, very secure door and window locks and A DOG OR DOGS should be the first order of business.
Suggest an alarm and a dog or dogs first!
While a home invasion by a gang of urban thugs may be unlikely in suburbia, six-sigma (or three-sigma!) events do occur from time to time. Both my wife and I found ourselves near ground zero during urban riots in the sixties and seventies.
Most of us also wear our seat belts every time we drive, and what are the chances that anyone will be involved in a traffic accident on any random day?
My primary HD firearm is a Mossberg 590A1 shotgun with 18.5" barrel and my wife's is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum revolver. As stated above, you can practice with .38 Special ammo.
However, for HD scenarios, the ballistics of .38 Special ammo are surprisingly poor, and the .38 Special +P ammo might be a minimum for HD. The .357 Magnum round is best if your wife can shoot it.
While a home invasion by a gang of urban thugs may be unlikely in suburbia, six-sigma (or three-sigma!) events do occur from time to time. Both my wife and I found ourselves near ground zero during urban riots in the sixties and seventies.
Most of us also wear our seat belts every time we drive, and what are the chances that anyone will be involved in a traffic accident on any random day?
My primary HD firearm is a Mossberg 590A1 shotgun with 18.5" barrel and my wife's is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum revolver. As stated above, you can practice with .38 Special ammo.
However, for HD scenarios, the ballistics of .38 Special ammo are surprisingly poor, and the .38 Special +P ammo might be a minimum for HD. The .357 Magnum round is best if your wife can shoot it.
jad0110
Member
Depends on the .38 Special ammo, which runs from piss poor to right up there with other popular/standard handgun calibers. There is certainly no shortage of choices. My HD 686 is loaded up with 158 grain +P LSWCHPs. Though they may look weak on paper (much like .44 Special), they have a reputation for reliably penetrating to at least 12" (the FBI minimum) while expanding quite well. And out of my 686 or your wife's GP, recoil is nil and follow up shots are a breeze. I've got .44s and .45s too, and don't feel any well less armed with a trusty .357 loaded with quality .38. But then again, I'd rather have my 12 gauge or AR for trouble.
And of course, Buffalo Bore has some .38 loads that are pretty much .357 Magnum-lite.
clance
Member
What is your handgun experience?
I wouldn't recommand anyone with little no experience to get a auto. There is just to many variables for an unexperience shooter. For a nice carry seeing that money is no option and size is, I would look at the S&W 640 in .357 mag. It's mostly a point and shoot gun being Double Action Only (DAO). Being a revolver, if a primer don't fire all you have to do is pull the trigger again to bring a new round into play. If this happens with a auto you have to manually rack the slide to clear the round then pull the trigger again. You also have to worry about making sure the magazine is seated properly, as well as keeping your wrist lock seeing that some autos being inertia operated will "stovepipe" if you don't. I've seen this happen "alot" with the Walther PPK/s on the range, generally when someone without thinking losen their grip. But the nice thing about a .357 mag is you can practice with .38 Spl. (which "alot" cheaper to shoot) or even carry .38 Spl. +P which bring you almost to a .357 without the massive recoil.
If you have to have a auto IMO it's hard to beat a Kahr P-9, 40, or 45. My daily carry is a Kahr TP-9, loaded with 124gr +P with a mag backup. I believe that Kahr also produce the TP in 40 S&W, and 45acp. I like the Kahr due to the fact it's a point and shoot gun just like the S&W 640, no additional safeties other then the thing I use to think with and my finger. It's extremely light and being made of stainless and polymer, very maintance friendly. It is I believe the only pistol where the manufacture actually recommends that you should use +P ammo for flawless operations.
Oh ya, almost forgot! You may want to pick yourself up a good pocket knife (or 2) just in case.
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If you plan on buying a gun for home defense and not maintaining it, I personally would recommend a stainless steel revolver. I know people that have guns for home defense and have not touched them for years. A revorver can usually take neglect better than an auto. If you are planning on shooting and maintaining the gun a good auto that holds at least a dozen rounds might be better.
You should cease worrying about the technobabble of various guns and take a good solid set of courses on how to shoot and handle self-defense situations.
A standard 9mm handgun like a Glock 19, SW M and P, or XD will work just fine. So would a SW Model 10.
A shotgun isn't a magic weapon that transforms a new shooter into a skilled operator - to use an overused term.
Now most DGUs are handled by untrained folks, etc - but IMHO, the training is a better investment than worrying about esoteric guns and ammo.
A standard 9mm handgun like a Glock 19, SW M and P, or XD will work just fine. So would a SW Model 10.
A shotgun isn't a magic weapon that transforms a new shooter into a skilled operator - to use an overused term.
Now most DGUs are handled by untrained folks, etc - but IMHO, the training is a better investment than worrying about esoteric guns and ammo.
Keep in mind that a full-sized handgun may end up being about as accessible as the shotguns it's supposed to get you to. Something in a mid-sized or smaller frame will be more likely to be with you than on the nightstand.
Also: Do you have an alarm system? (You can do an audible alarm system -- alarm service -- cheaply yourself. You can sometimes get an alarm company sign from the company without buying a thing. Or just buy their hardware for windows, doors and audible alarms and hang their signs; bad guys don't know whether you have the service or not.) Do your doors have security kick plates? Have you got automatic exterior lighting? Thorny plants under your windows? Secure windows? Do you use your peep hole every time the doorbell rings? Is the quality of the peep hole good enough to tell the difference between, say, a real UPS driver and a guy in brown clothing with a clipboard? Do you have a glass window near the front door? (Get rid of it.) Do you have a secure garage door?
Being less of a target is a good thing. It makes your last line of defense take that much longer to get to, and hopefully makes criminals pass you on for easier targets.
Also: Do you have an alarm system? (You can do an audible alarm system -- alarm service -- cheaply yourself. You can sometimes get an alarm company sign from the company without buying a thing. Or just buy their hardware for windows, doors and audible alarms and hang their signs; bad guys don't know whether you have the service or not.) Do your doors have security kick plates? Have you got automatic exterior lighting? Thorny plants under your windows? Secure windows? Do you use your peep hole every time the doorbell rings? Is the quality of the peep hole good enough to tell the difference between, say, a real UPS driver and a guy in brown clothing with a clipboard? Do you have a glass window near the front door? (Get rid of it.) Do you have a secure garage door?
Being less of a target is a good thing. It makes your last line of defense take that much longer to get to, and hopefully makes criminals pass you on for easier targets.
I hope you never have to use deadly force. In case you ever do, I'd advise you curtail this type of commentary both on the internet (which is more easily traceable to you than you may think) and in person. This isn't the type of comment you want read back to you in a courtroom by an overzealous DA.
Plus, it's not very High Road thinking IMO. We shoot to stop a threat. Whatever it takes. Leave vengeance to higher powers and justice to courts and just focus on getting out of any such situation intact.
Quaamilk has it right. Why limit yourself to a small framed handgun for home defense; they are much harder to shoot accurately and recoil can be an issue with the wife.
I have a full sied 1911 by my bed, but that isn't a good choice for my wife; the downstairs closet gun is a G22 which is better suited to my wifes use.
I have a full sied 1911 by my bed, but that isn't a good choice for my wife; the downstairs closet gun is a G22 which is better suited to my wifes use.
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