Andrew Rothman
Member
Alan -- good find!
El T or other tilecrawlers -- whadayathink?
El T or other tilecrawlers -- whadayathink?
Home Depot ALLOWS concealed carry -- please stop urban legend
- Thread starter dandean316
- Start date
- Status
Bob Locke
Member
That's good stuff, Alan.
I've always been of the opinion that any state or locality that prohibits you, by law, from being able to defend yourself must assume the liability for protecting you at all times. This case seems to bear that out, though the judges only applied it to business owners. The principle is definitely the same, in my opinion.
There's a Supreme Court case about the duty of the state to provide care when it legally restricts a person from providing it for himself. I need to try to find it. I know it involved a kid (12- or 13-year-old boy) and a state department of social services. Anyone help on that?
I've always been of the opinion that any state or locality that prohibits you, by law, from being able to defend yourself must assume the liability for protecting you at all times. This case seems to bear that out, though the judges only applied it to business owners. The principle is definitely the same, in my opinion.
There's a Supreme Court case about the duty of the state to provide care when it legally restricts a person from providing it for himself. I need to try to find it. I know it involved a kid (12- or 13-year-old boy) and a state department of social services. Anyone help on that?
Bob Locke
Member
Found it.
DESHANEY v. WINNEBAGO CTY. SOC. SERVS. DEPT., 489 U.S. 189 (1989)
Several interesting items from this case:
Any legal eagles out there care to comment?
DESHANEY v. WINNEBAGO CTY. SOC. SERVS. DEPT., 489 U.S. 189 (1989)
Several interesting items from this case:
The State is under NO obligation to protect you. However,
If I read that correctly, if the State prohibits you from being able to adequately defend yourself, then it has an affirmative duty to protect you, and is liable if it fails to do so. Reading further:
I think this case may have implications in the RKBA arena in MANY states.
Any legal eagles out there care to comment?
El Rojo
Member
Here is the letter I just shot off to Home Depot. Everyone crank up the support. Don't just cut and paste a letter either, make it unique.
There is a rumor floating about the Internet that Home Depot is prohibiting law abiding citizens from legally carrying a concealed weapon into your Minnesota stores. I am a rare few in California that has a concealed weapon permit and more importantly I am one of many in California that supports the People's right to keep and bear arms. Prior to this rumor's circulation, I prefered to drive the 40 miles from my home to your Home Depot to spend my home repair dollars. I chose you over Lowe's and over the local home repair True Value center. I will no longer be shopping at your store. I will start shopping at the local True Value that not only sells ammunition at their store, but also has donated to the local chapter of the non-profit Friends of the NRA. As you might quickly learn, law abiding citizens that own firearms have money and they like to spend it. They will not spend it by supporting organizations or businesses that limit their legal rights with no other basis than misinformation and a anti-Constitutional bias. Nearly everytime I have entered your store, I have been armed. Thankfully, no one in your store ever knew I was armed because there was no reason for me to use my firearm in self-defense. Had there been an immediate threat to one of your employees or myself, I would have the same means law enforcement has to defend the lives of others. Think about the legal responsibility you might be putting you company in by prohibiting lawful concealed carry. If citizens are not allowed to protect themselves in your stores, you are assuming that responsibility for them. Should anything happen to those people because of your restrictions, you will be held liable. Whereas if you allow concealed carry as provided my Minnesota law, the responsibility is on the individual citizen and they will be held liable for any gross errors in judgement, which are generally rare among a properly trained and licensed citizenry. Either way, until Home Depot clarifies their policy regarding the lawful possession of arms by the public, I will not be shopping at your stores, I will be encouraging everyone I know to not shop at your stores, and we will not support an organization or business that restricts our rights to life, libery, and the pursuit of happiness. Thank you.
Wesley Morris,
Taft, CA
There is a rumor floating about the Internet that Home Depot is prohibiting law abiding citizens from legally carrying a concealed weapon into your Minnesota stores. I am a rare few in California that has a concealed weapon permit and more importantly I am one of many in California that supports the People's right to keep and bear arms. Prior to this rumor's circulation, I prefered to drive the 40 miles from my home to your Home Depot to spend my home repair dollars. I chose you over Lowe's and over the local home repair True Value center. I will no longer be shopping at your store. I will start shopping at the local True Value that not only sells ammunition at their store, but also has donated to the local chapter of the non-profit Friends of the NRA. As you might quickly learn, law abiding citizens that own firearms have money and they like to spend it. They will not spend it by supporting organizations or businesses that limit their legal rights with no other basis than misinformation and a anti-Constitutional bias. Nearly everytime I have entered your store, I have been armed. Thankfully, no one in your store ever knew I was armed because there was no reason for me to use my firearm in self-defense. Had there been an immediate threat to one of your employees or myself, I would have the same means law enforcement has to defend the lives of others. Think about the legal responsibility you might be putting you company in by prohibiting lawful concealed carry. If citizens are not allowed to protect themselves in your stores, you are assuming that responsibility for them. Should anything happen to those people because of your restrictions, you will be held liable. Whereas if you allow concealed carry as provided my Minnesota law, the responsibility is on the individual citizen and they will be held liable for any gross errors in judgement, which are generally rare among a properly trained and licensed citizenry. Either way, until Home Depot clarifies their policy regarding the lawful possession of arms by the public, I will not be shopping at your stores, I will be encouraging everyone I know to not shop at your stores, and we will not support an organization or business that restricts our rights to life, libery, and the pursuit of happiness. Thank you.
Wesley Morris,
Taft, CA
jimpeel
Member
Think about this: The same thing that the government absolves themselves of; they impose on private industry.
At the same time they claim
At the same time they claim
for themselves they also claim
I sent the Home Depot a fairly brief message outlining that it would be unwise for them to post, and I made sure I told them that they would be getting more comments like mine...
Just use big words, like 'establishment' instead of store, and 'premises' instead of place.
Does anyone else know an establishment that posts these signs that I could send my comments too?
Trying to make a difference!!
Just use big words, like 'establishment' instead of store, and 'premises' instead of place.
Does anyone else know an establishment that posts these signs that I could send my comments too?
Trying to make a difference!!
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Lowes tried banning CCW. I called and talked with one of the V.P.s at the HQ office. We then generated hundreds, then thousands of letters.
Within three weeks, they pulled down the signs.
The ONLY thing that motivates business decisions is profit. When they really see sales disappearing (we faxed them receipts from their competitors each time we bought there), they almost always change the position.
Within three weeks, they pulled down the signs.
The ONLY thing that motivates business decisions is profit. When they really see sales disappearing (we faxed them receipts from their competitors each time we bought there), they almost always change the position.
MrKandiyohi
Member
I certainly hope you're wrong about Home Depot. We have one opening in Willmar this Thursday, Dec 4. I'm building a house, and was planning on using them for the kitchen design and most of the products I'll install myself.
I'll check when I stop by later this week.
I'll check when I stop by later this week.
XavierBreath
Member
I don't shop at Home Despot, but I mailed them anyway. Thanks guys.
4570Rick
Member
My letter to Home Depot;
It has come to my attention that some of your stores in or around the state of Minnesota may be posting signs denying entry to citizens who lawfully carry a firearm. Though I do not live in Minnesota, I am a law-abiding citizen and a customer of Home Depot. Or should I say, Former Customer? That you would arbitrarily choose to penalize law-abiding citizens who lawfully carry is unconscionable. Have the socio-political ignorant so confused the issue, that they have successfully convinced you that the gun is evil?
If the policy of Home Depot is to deny the lawful carry of concealed weapons, I will do no business with Home Depot. I am not alone, and I'm sure Lowes would accept my business.
R. F. McWold
Their response:
Dear Mr. McWold,
Thank you for contacting Home Depot Customer Care.
Thank you for taking the time to provide us with this valuable feedback regarding your concerns about Home Depot's firearms policy. We will bring them to the attention of our executive team. For further information about The Home Depot please visit our website at www.homedepot.com to read current Home Depot press releases.
If we can be of further assistance, please email us again or call us at 1-800-553-3199.
Sincerely,
Sharon B.
homedepot.com
Customer Care Department
Am I being blown off? I feel like I've been blown off.
Where'd I put that Lowes add?
It has come to my attention that some of your stores in or around the state of Minnesota may be posting signs denying entry to citizens who lawfully carry a firearm. Though I do not live in Minnesota, I am a law-abiding citizen and a customer of Home Depot. Or should I say, Former Customer? That you would arbitrarily choose to penalize law-abiding citizens who lawfully carry is unconscionable. Have the socio-political ignorant so confused the issue, that they have successfully convinced you that the gun is evil?
If the policy of Home Depot is to deny the lawful carry of concealed weapons, I will do no business with Home Depot. I am not alone, and I'm sure Lowes would accept my business.
R. F. McWold
Their response:
Dear Mr. McWold,
Thank you for contacting Home Depot Customer Care.
Thank you for taking the time to provide us with this valuable feedback regarding your concerns about Home Depot's firearms policy. We will bring them to the attention of our executive team. For further information about The Home Depot please visit our website at www.homedepot.com to read current Home Depot press releases.
If we can be of further assistance, please email us again or call us at 1-800-553-3199.
Sincerely,
Sharon B.
homedepot.com
Customer Care Department
Am I being blown off? I feel like I've been blown off.
Where'd I put that Lowes add?
Ryder
Member
I just began remodeling my home. I did comparison shopping between these stores and it still cost me $6500 to complete my bathroom. Looks like I may have less running around to do this Spring than I thought. Interesting!
Kitchen is next on the list
Kitchen is next on the list
El Rojo
Member
I didn't even get a reply, so you are doing better than I.
mdsteele
Member
For ready reference:
(800) 553-3199 Home Depot National Office
case number 868192
I don't think this is official yet. We need to be heard folks.
Call and press option 5. Give operator case number and opinion.
Just got off the phone with them. Easy as 1 2 3.
(800) 553-3199 Home Depot National Office
case number 868192
I don't think this is official yet. We need to be heard folks.
Call and press option 5. Give operator case number and opinion.
Just got off the phone with them. Easy as 1 2 3.
dandean316
Member
Good work! I will call again...
It's interesting some have gotten replies (although canned) and some (like me) haven't. The slience is defening...
It's interesting some have gotten replies (although canned) and some (like me) haven't. The slience is defening...
jimpeel
Member
I found nothing at that page that directs me to press releases. Sent an e-mail to that effect.
dandean316
Member
Try
http://ir.homedepot.com/releases.cfm?Year=2003
for press releases.
I found nothing about anti-CCW posting either, although I don't expect they will one way or the other.
I guess until we see the signs or the responses stating they will post, we just keep sending emails.
http://ir.homedepot.com/releases.cfm?Year=2003
for press releases.
I found nothing about anti-CCW posting either, although I don't expect they will one way or the other.
I guess until we see the signs or the responses stating they will post, we just keep sending emails.
MrAcheson
Member
dandean316
Member
HOME DEPOT *ALLOWS* *LEGAL* CONCEALED CARRY
Well, apparently the sign in MN was put up without corporate approval. Here's what I got:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOME DEPOT *ALLOWS* *LEGAL* CONCEALED CARRY
Here's the scoop. This morning we spoke to the person in charge of
ALL Home
Depot's nationwide policy. Every policy must cross his desk to be
approved.
He explicitly told us that:
1. HOME DEPOT does *NOT* prohibit legal concealed carry; in fact, they
consider it to be ridiculous and a public safety hazard. They do not
have
anything in their books on this issue, nor do they plan on putting it
in
their books. If it's legal in your state to carry concealed, you can
carry
in Home Depot, as long as you are following state law. Needless to
say, if
you are trying to have people notice you are carrying and your weapon
is
exposed or you are creating a public nuisance with a gun, you will be
asked
to leave. Corporate realizes that almost all CCW permit holders are
legal
and sane, and they will not discriminate against them.
2. Any store posting against legal concealed carry is VIOLATING
Corporate
Policy -- that is, they are not allowed to post these signs because
there is
no policy providing for a manager to post these signs. If they post
signs
against legal concealed carry, they are acting without Home Depot
authority
and should be reported.
The person who oversees Home Depots operations has given us his direct
office phone number to contact him with any stores that are posted.
If you
know of any Home Depot manager that is currently posting signs
prohibiting
legal concealed carry in their store, please email us with the store
number,
address, phone number, manager's name, and the wording and location
of the
sign(s) so we can let Home Depot know, and those signs will be taken
down.
Neal & Melissa Seaman
Neal@D... or
skypod@D...
Phone: (843) 716-0511
Well, apparently the sign in MN was put up without corporate approval. Here's what I got:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOME DEPOT *ALLOWS* *LEGAL* CONCEALED CARRY
Here's the scoop. This morning we spoke to the person in charge of
ALL Home
Depot's nationwide policy. Every policy must cross his desk to be
approved.
He explicitly told us that:
1. HOME DEPOT does *NOT* prohibit legal concealed carry; in fact, they
consider it to be ridiculous and a public safety hazard. They do not
have
anything in their books on this issue, nor do they plan on putting it
in
their books. If it's legal in your state to carry concealed, you can
carry
in Home Depot, as long as you are following state law. Needless to
say, if
you are trying to have people notice you are carrying and your weapon
is
exposed or you are creating a public nuisance with a gun, you will be
asked
to leave. Corporate realizes that almost all CCW permit holders are
legal
and sane, and they will not discriminate against them.
2. Any store posting against legal concealed carry is VIOLATING
Corporate
Policy -- that is, they are not allowed to post these signs because
there is
no policy providing for a manager to post these signs. If they post
signs
against legal concealed carry, they are acting without Home Depot
authority
and should be reported.
The person who oversees Home Depots operations has given us his direct
office phone number to contact him with any stores that are posted.
If you
know of any Home Depot manager that is currently posting signs
prohibiting
legal concealed carry in their store, please email us with the store
number,
address, phone number, manager's name, and the wording and location
of the
sign(s) so we can let Home Depot know, and those signs will be taken
down.
Neal & Melissa Seaman
Neal@D... or
skypod@D...
Phone: (843) 716-0511
El Rojo
Member
I don't understand what you mean there. What do they consider to be ridiculous and a public safety hazard?
I guess I will e-mail them and tell them thank you.
Skibane
Member
Simple answer: "Because it wouldn't do a very good job of protecting me if it wasn't with me when I actually needed it, now would it?"
Ohen Cepel
Member
I just email them.
Informed them that as an Army officer stationed overseas I was disgusted!
Asked them if they assumed I was a threat to them and their staff.
Told them I would not shop there again or continue to invest in their company if this were true.
I think something that we have been missing is the investment portion.
Need to be sure that we will also pull our money from them in that way also. They have had some rocky times and that may get their attention as well or better. I can't boycott what isn't near me. However, I can pull my investments!
Thanks for the info!
I have no idea why companies do these stupid things. Or for that matter get involved in the issue at all. Give money to cancer research and kids. You won't pi$$ anyone off that way.
Informed them that as an Army officer stationed overseas I was disgusted!
Asked them if they assumed I was a threat to them and their staff.
Told them I would not shop there again or continue to invest in their company if this were true.
I think something that we have been missing is the investment portion.
Need to be sure that we will also pull our money from them in that way also. They have had some rocky times and that may get their attention as well or better. I can't boycott what isn't near me. However, I can pull my investments!
Thanks for the info!
I have no idea why companies do these stupid things. Or for that matter get involved in the issue at all. Give money to cancer research and kids. You won't pi$$ anyone off that way.
Andrew Rothman
Member
Um... did you read the whole thread?
dandean316
Member
HOME DEPOT ALLOWS CCW
I tried to edit my original post so that it reads:
HOME DEPOT ALLOWS CCW
but the system won't let me. I asked the moderator to do it, or close the thread.
We called. They retreated.
So again:
HOME DEPOT ALLOWS CCW
I tried to edit my original post so that it reads:
HOME DEPOT ALLOWS CCW
but the system won't let me. I asked the moderator to do it, or close the thread.
We called. They retreated.
So again:
HOME DEPOT ALLOWS CCW
Closed to stop the spread of an Urban Legend.
Please continue discussion at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52890
Again, Home Depot's corporate policy is to allow concealed carry. If any individual stores are posting, they are violating corporate policy. Corporate headquarters has asked that if anyone observes their local store violating corporate policy, we contact headquarters and tell them about it.
pax
Please continue discussion at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52890
Again, Home Depot's corporate policy is to allow concealed carry. If any individual stores are posting, they are violating corporate policy. Corporate headquarters has asked that if anyone observes their local store violating corporate policy, we contact headquarters and tell them about it.
pax
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