Deanimator
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Do you feel the same way about a handgun? Do you believe that a defense revolver should be kept unloaded?
Home protection help
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Jorg Nysgerrig
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It appears that you couldn't be bothered to read the link I provided. If you had, you'd realize that the above question has nothing to do with why leaving a shotgun chamber empty is a good idea. Notice I didn't say leave the gun unloaded.
From the other thread:
Remember that no shotguns have internal firing pin locks. This means that if a shell is in the chamber and the gun is struck sharply against a hard object at either muzzle or butt end, inertia can cause the firing pin to bounce forward against its spring and unintentionally fire the shotgun. This is why shotguns in police cars are ALWAYS kept with loaded magazines but empty firing chambers. For the same reasons, a shotgun stored loaded in the home for family defense should be a magazine-type weapon kept with its firing chamber empty. It is customary to hunt with rounds in the guns’ chambers, and this is why the “Ten Commandments of Firearms Safety” for hunters includes admonitions to unload the gun and set it down before crossing fences, and to always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. ...
Most defensive handguns, on the other hand, have some form of safety to prevent discharge if they are dropped. Therefore, above reason to keep the chamber empty for storage doesn't apply.
Roadwild17
Member
I think now would be a good time for someone to explain "curser ready"
dragongoddess
member
What? No one considers the possibility of a round going through a wall. What lip service paid to the issue was kinda of on the light side. Blindndead. You need to be sure any weapon you choose will not find its way into another room or next door. I also see you are from MA. I here a lot about MA. not being friendly toward the gun owner. Also any weapon you have to use will most likely be taken by the Police until the matter is settled. So your home defense weapon needs to be a weapon you are willing to part with. Training. Training. Training. In whatever weapon you choose. Then train some more and continue said training on a regular basis.
Question.
Are there children in the house and what ages are they?
Where do you plan to keep the weapon?
If children are in the house will they be able to access the weapon?
Will your partner also know/learn to use the chosen weapon. If not why not? If not why bother with a weapon. Just get a good dog. Invest in a good door, good dead bolt locks and secure your windows. Make sure all the locks are RE-KEYED or NEW. Preferably new.
Now since you are moving into a new house do the following at the very least for minimal security.
invest in a good door, good dead bolt locks and secure your windows. Make sure all the locks are RE-KEYED or NEW. Preferably new. Re-keying the locks or purchasing new locks should be the first thing you do before moving in.
Question.
Are there children in the house and what ages are they?
Where do you plan to keep the weapon?
If children are in the house will they be able to access the weapon?
Will your partner also know/learn to use the chosen weapon. If not why not? If not why bother with a weapon. Just get a good dog. Invest in a good door, good dead bolt locks and secure your windows. Make sure all the locks are RE-KEYED or NEW. Preferably new.
Now since you are moving into a new house do the following at the very least for minimal security.
invest in a good door, good dead bolt locks and secure your windows. Make sure all the locks are RE-KEYED or NEW. Preferably new. Re-keying the locks or purchasing new locks should be the first thing you do before moving in.
12 or 20 gauge pump, loaded w/ #4 BIRDSHOT.
You have a serious overpenetration risk. Any handgun round, as well as 00 buck will go through most framed walls (not brick of course), usually a couple...In my backyard range, I have some dead appliances, backed by
some BIG (24") logs from a tree I had to cut down. All the handgun rounds we've shot (including .22LR)will penetrate both sides of the appliance (and whatever plastic junk is in there) and into the wood, various distances. 00 buck will as well, just doesn't penetrate as far into the wood. So I've tried various loads(both through the appliances, and into plain wood), and the #4 birdshot works out well. At short range almost anything coming outa a shotgun barrel is gonna make a mess, and cartainly take the fight outa the BG.
P.S. a co-worker of mine was hit with birdshot, at about 50-60 feet. He only caught the edge of the pattern, in the lower legs. And it WAS messy. and I think that was when they were hunting rabbit, so it was probably #6 or maybe # 7 1/2 shot.
P.P.S. No weapon lights for me...don't need a "SHOOT ME HERE" target on me. You quickly learn to navigate the whole house in the dark. Better to stay put with the gun in most cases. I kinda have to check things out as I have, a barn and outbuidlings, so I need to check outside.
You have a serious overpenetration risk. Any handgun round, as well as 00 buck will go through most framed walls (not brick of course), usually a couple...In my backyard range, I have some dead appliances, backed by
some BIG (24") logs from a tree I had to cut down. All the handgun rounds we've shot (including .22LR)will penetrate both sides of the appliance (and whatever plastic junk is in there) and into the wood, various distances. 00 buck will as well, just doesn't penetrate as far into the wood. So I've tried various loads(both through the appliances, and into plain wood), and the #4 birdshot works out well. At short range almost anything coming outa a shotgun barrel is gonna make a mess, and cartainly take the fight outa the BG.
P.S. a co-worker of mine was hit with birdshot, at about 50-60 feet. He only caught the edge of the pattern, in the lower legs. And it WAS messy. and I think that was when they were hunting rabbit, so it was probably #6 or maybe # 7 1/2 shot.
P.P.S. No weapon lights for me...don't need a "SHOOT ME HERE" target on me. You quickly learn to navigate the whole house in the dark. Better to stay put with the gun in most cases. I kinda have to check things out as I have, a barn and outbuidlings, so I need to check outside.
First get a dog. Dogs give you time to activate your HD plan.
You live in massachusetts, the original home of Patriots, but that left when tip and teddy kept getting elected. You really need to first find out what your current laws are regarding weapons possession. Find them and obey them. We sold a house out on the Cape because for me to visit meant I was going to be a felon and It was not worth that to me. My families safety comes first.
Have you handled firearms before? If you have not, first and foremost find someone or somewhere who can teach you safe gun handling. NRA did have some places still in massachusetts but not sure how close to you.
Long guns, including shotguns, are going to be the first option allowed to you I believe. A shotgun with a shorter barrel is a very good choice, loaded with 4 buck or BB lead, they are very effective at the distances you will face in the house. There are several "combo packages" available with remington and mossberg guns, where you buy a 26 or 28 inch barrel for bird hunting and a 18-20 barrel for HD or deer hunting, for your option you do not want the short barrel to be rifled, as this is only useful for slugs, but for your use you want a smoothbore, rifle sighted 18-20 inch barrel. If you can, go out and use the longer barrel for shooting trap, skeet or sporting clays, get used to the gun, so it feels second nature for you to bring it up, flip off the safety and work the action. If you have relatives who have some land, buy a clay pigeon thrower and go out and bust some clays, have fun, but learn the gun.
In defensive use, inside the home, the shotgun rules. It is often the choice of experienced LEO's who have to enter and clear occupied dwellings. There are very few thugs breaking in to your home who will have matching firepower. A 12 ga trumps a 9 or a "footay" every time.
After you get used to your shotgun, you may wish to investigate a handgun, I would suggest that a good .22 handgun will teach your more faster than any other, but is a poor choice for any HD and would lead you to a second purchase of a self defense handgun, but for that you need to again follow all your laws in your state regarding purchase and permits etc.
You live in massachusetts, the original home of Patriots, but that left when tip and teddy kept getting elected. You really need to first find out what your current laws are regarding weapons possession. Find them and obey them. We sold a house out on the Cape because for me to visit meant I was going to be a felon and It was not worth that to me. My families safety comes first.
Have you handled firearms before? If you have not, first and foremost find someone or somewhere who can teach you safe gun handling. NRA did have some places still in massachusetts but not sure how close to you.
Long guns, including shotguns, are going to be the first option allowed to you I believe. A shotgun with a shorter barrel is a very good choice, loaded with 4 buck or BB lead, they are very effective at the distances you will face in the house. There are several "combo packages" available with remington and mossberg guns, where you buy a 26 or 28 inch barrel for bird hunting and a 18-20 barrel for HD or deer hunting, for your option you do not want the short barrel to be rifled, as this is only useful for slugs, but for your use you want a smoothbore, rifle sighted 18-20 inch barrel. If you can, go out and use the longer barrel for shooting trap, skeet or sporting clays, get used to the gun, so it feels second nature for you to bring it up, flip off the safety and work the action. If you have relatives who have some land, buy a clay pigeon thrower and go out and bust some clays, have fun, but learn the gun.
In defensive use, inside the home, the shotgun rules. It is often the choice of experienced LEO's who have to enter and clear occupied dwellings. There are very few thugs breaking in to your home who will have matching firepower. A 12 ga trumps a 9 or a "footay" every time.
After you get used to your shotgun, you may wish to investigate a handgun, I would suggest that a good .22 handgun will teach your more faster than any other, but is a poor choice for any HD and would lead you to a second purchase of a self defense handgun, but for that you need to again follow all your laws in your state regarding purchase and permits etc.
What's the construction of the wall between the two sides? Cinder block would be best, but please tell us.
Your first step is to secure the home against breakin. Do you intend to have a monitored security system installed? What about beefing up doors, windows and locks? It's more important to keep bad guys out.
Do you have any experience with firearms? If not, can you spend money for a class? The class would provide basic to intermediate training in the firearm of your choice. Anywhere from $200-$400 would be expected for a course.
A shotgun in 20 would be less recoil and very effective at house ranges. You'll want as short a barrel as you can find (within legal limits of course). Follow the recommendations on the smaller shot to minimize the number of walls the shot will penetrate. Remember that you have to aim a shotgun at house ranges because the shot pattern won't open up much under 30-50 feet. The suggested weapon light would aid in aiming.
Nathan Williams
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As far as keeping them loaded, I use a Glock for HD, I keep it with a loaded magazine and a empty chamber. If I should ever need it all I have to do is rack the slide and were ready to rock. For revolvers keep the hammer down on an empty chamber, for shotguns keep the tube loaded and nothing in the chamber (the sound of a shotgun racking will change the mind of all but the most determined BG). As for rifles......well IMO a rifle makes a poor choice for a HD gun. I dont like loaded guns with a round in the chamber for a reason. Long story shot when I was a kid mom cleaning out their bedroom closet after my dad failed to empty the chamber in a old worn out rifle resulted in a 30-06 sized hole going through 4 walls 
.
.I think a pump action 12ga is a tried and true HD weapon.
In regards to the weapon-mounted light, the main reservation I have is that you must point the muzzle wherever you point the light. This, to me, seems to go against basic firearms safety. However, I do not know of any way to be able to identify your target without the light when no free hand is available to hold a flashlight (unless of course you had a head lamp, but these tend to be constant-on lights).
As of now, I have no reason to clear my dwelling since I'm single and I have sufficient light to identify a target in my room (LED from computer speakers can be relatively bright in a dark setting), so I have not made a final decision on a weapon-mounted light for my shotgun as of yet.
As a side-note, is there any actual data to support the notion that the sound of a shotgun slide racking is an effective deterrent? It seems that this idea makes sense and therefore gets repeated often, but I've never seen anything to back it up. I understand that it seems like this would scare away most people, but then again I imagine cycling the action of any (noiser) firearm would do so. Personally, I would rather rack it before the attacker can hear it in case they are prepared for an armed confrontation as well. No need letting them know your location or status if not necessary.
In regards to the weapon-mounted light, the main reservation I have is that you must point the muzzle wherever you point the light. This, to me, seems to go against basic firearms safety. However, I do not know of any way to be able to identify your target without the light when no free hand is available to hold a flashlight (unless of course you had a head lamp, but these tend to be constant-on lights).
As of now, I have no reason to clear my dwelling since I'm single and I have sufficient light to identify a target in my room (LED from computer speakers can be relatively bright in a dark setting), so I have not made a final decision on a weapon-mounted light for my shotgun as of yet.
As a side-note, is there any actual data to support the notion that the sound of a shotgun slide racking is an effective deterrent? It seems that this idea makes sense and therefore gets repeated often, but I've never seen anything to back it up. I understand that it seems like this would scare away most people, but then again I imagine cycling the action of any (noiser) firearm would do so. Personally, I would rather rack it before the attacker can hear it in case they are prepared for an armed confrontation as well. No need letting them know your location or status if not necessary.
grislyatoms
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12 or 20 gauge pump with target loads, #8 shot, full choke.
#8 through a full choke is gonna stop a bad guy in his tracks at home defense distances, and is less likely to hurt your neighbors than larger pellet types.
Flame suit on.
#8 through a full choke is gonna stop a bad guy in his tracks at home defense distances, and is less likely to hurt your neighbors than larger pellet types.
Flame suit on.
progunner1957
member
I would say get a Remington 870 Express in 12ga. with the short deer barrel - I got mine @ Wally World about 2 yrs. ago for $250. 4+1 rounds of 12ga. should put a stop to about anything short of a riot!
According to Masaad Ayoob, #4 buckshot is a good choice to prevent overpenetration, yet has good stopping power.
I would back it up with a handgun of some sort - both Glocks and Springfield Armory XDs are priced within reason and are very reliable. You can also get a basic Springfield 1911 .45 auto for a little less than the Glock or XD. I would go with a full size model (full size = more controllability, more muzzle velocity due to the longer barrel) in .40 S&W or .45ACP.
As far as handgun ammo, my choice is Federal's EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket). It feeds with the reliability of hardball, yet expands like hollopoint ammo. It is available in both 40 S&W and .45ACP.
Why no mention of the 9mm? As the Marines say, "Thou shalt never attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not begin with the number four." As I like to say, "Big bullets get things done!"
According to Masaad Ayoob, #4 buckshot is a good choice to prevent overpenetration, yet has good stopping power.
I would back it up with a handgun of some sort - both Glocks and Springfield Armory XDs are priced within reason and are very reliable. You can also get a basic Springfield 1911 .45 auto for a little less than the Glock or XD. I would go with a full size model (full size = more controllability, more muzzle velocity due to the longer barrel) in .40 S&W or .45ACP.
As far as handgun ammo, my choice is Federal's EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket). It feeds with the reliability of hardball, yet expands like hollopoint ammo. It is available in both 40 S&W and .45ACP.
Why no mention of the 9mm? As the Marines say, "Thou shalt never attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not begin with the number four." As I like to say, "Big bullets get things done!"
Squidward
Member
What is your experience with firearms? The answer will determine what you should do. And then take a firearms safety course anyway.
FWIW I prefer a handgun w/ a light attached for HD. I can be on the phone to 9-11 and shoot the weapon at the same time if need be.
Overpenatration is always a concern. Pick a caliber that meets your abilities/needs as a shooter and appropriate for your environment. Then practice alot.. because hitting your target reduces the chance of overpenatration through the wall.
FWIW I prefer a handgun w/ a light attached for HD. I can be on the phone to 9-11 and shoot the weapon at the same time if need be.
Overpenatration is always a concern. Pick a caliber that meets your abilities/needs as a shooter and appropriate for your environment. Then practice alot.. because hitting your target reduces the chance of overpenatration through the wall.
blindndead
Member
my first
My first firearm was a 7.62x39mm SKS and a marlin 22 on my fid card when I was 18 but I had to get Rid of them because there was a newborn In the house (Parents). I am 30 now and I miss shooting. As the thickness of the walls in my home goes. The house is 100+ years old so the walls are the old lats with the horse hair stuffing. not incliding the new sheetrock that I put in myself.
My first firearm was a 7.62x39mm SKS and a marlin 22 on my fid card when I was 18 but I had to get Rid of them because there was a newborn In the house (Parents). I am 30 now and I miss shooting. As the thickness of the walls in my home goes. The house is 100+ years old so the walls are the old lats with the horse hair stuffing. not incliding the new sheetrock that I put in myself.
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