Home storage of ammo, "HazMat" laws etc?

[TexasRifleman]

This quote from a thread on ammo prices

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=279507

Keep more than a couple thousand rounds in your house and you are most certainly violating some sort of local law and will only be incompliance if you let officials know it is there and put up the proper HAZMAT signs to alert everyone what you have in the event of an emergency.

Got me to wondering. Now I'll argue that a couple thousand rounds is certainly not an amount to run into any laws in states still in the US (you others know who you are, sorry).

But, beyond that, when do we get into an area where this kind of stuff actually matters?

I'm not talking media perception of your "arsenal", I mean real law concerning holding and storing large amounts of ammo.

Anyone have statutes, Federal and State, that address this?

A real concern or not?

 

[vzenmn]

I think if it is a real concern about 99% of the members on this board are in trouble.

 

[Librarian]

Most of the concern seems to come from fire departments (who, in general, appear not to enjoy ammunition 'cooking off' but don't especially fear it) and most fire districts/agencies seem to use some version of the NFPA Explosive Materials Code. Perhaps someone with professional access to this can share its content on small arms ammunition.

California seems not very concerned:

CCR Title 8, §5371. Small Arms Ammunition.
(a) Small arms ammunition shall be separated from flammable liquids, flammable solids and oxidizing materials by a fire-resistant wall of one-hour rating or by a distance of 25 feet.

(b) Small arms ammunition shall not be stored together with high explosive materials unless the storage facility is adequate.

NOTE

Authority cited: Section 142.3, Labor Code. Reference: Section 142.3, Labor Code.

 

[ServiceSoon]

The only thing I could find in the Indiana statutes was about fireworks.

I found requirements for the military and federal firearms license dealers.


Primer on storage requirements for rocketeers. This gets into more specifics. It appears the information we seek will be found in 27 CFR but...

The questions regarding storage requirements are for:

small arms ammunition
powder
primers

Can anybody provide the UN numbers for the three items above?

 

[scout26]

From Hodgdon's Website:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/nfpa.php

National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Guidelines
Note: Pyrodex® and Triple Seven® muzzleloading powders are not smokeless powders, but the same principles and regulations for storage apply.

13-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS

13-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 lb (11.3 kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, shall be permitted to be transported in a private vehicle.

13-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3 kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

13-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle shall be prohibited.

13-3.4 Commercial shipments of smokeless powder for small arms which has been classed in Division 1.3 shall be permitted to be reclassed as Division 4.1 Flammable Solid for transportation purposes for shipment by motor vehicle, rail car, vessel, or cargo-only aircraft, subject to the conditions stated in the U.S. Department of Transportation "Hazardous Materials Regulations," 49 CFR 173.171.

13-3.5 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg) or not packaged in accordance with the regulations cited in 13-3.4 shall be transported in accordance with the U.S. Department of Transportation regulations for Class B propellant explosives.

13-3.6 Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping containers specified by U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations.

13-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

13-3.8 Not more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants, in containers of 1 lb (0.45 kg) maximum capacity, shall be displayed in commercial establishments.

13-3.9 Commercial stocks of smokeless propellants shall be stored as follows:

(1) Quantities exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), but not exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg), shall be stored in portable wooden boxes having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) thickness.

(2) Quantities exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg), but not exceeding 800 lb (363 kg), shall be stored in nonportable storage cabinets having walls of at least 1 in (25.4 mm) thickness. Not more than 400 lb (181 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in any one cabinet, and cabinets shall be separated by a distance of at least 25 ft (7.63 m) or by a fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.

(3) Quantities exceeding 800 lb (363 kg), but not exceeding 5,000 lb (2268 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in a building, provided the following requirements are met:

(a). The warehouse or storage room shall not be accessible to unauthorized personnel.

(b). Smokeless propellant shall be stored in nonportable storage cabinets having wood walls at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) thickness and having shelves with no more than 3 ft. (0.92 m) of separation between shelves.

(c). No more than 400 lb. (181 kg) shall be stored in any one cabinet..

(d). Cabinets shall be located against the walls of the storage room or warehouse with at least 40 ft (12.2 m) between cabinets.

(e). The separation between cabinets shall be permitted to be reduced to 20 ft (6.1 m) where barricades twice the height of the cabinets are attached to the wall, midway between each cabinet. The barricades shall extend at least 10 ft. (3 m) outward, shall be firmly attached to the wall, and shall be constructed of 1/4 in. (6.4 mm) boiler plate, 2 in. (51 mm) thick wood, brick, or concrete block.

(f). Smokeless propellant shall be separated from materials classified by the U.S. Department of Transportation as flammable liquids, flammable solids, and oxidizing materials by a distance of 25 ft. (7.63 m) or by a fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.

(g). The building shall be protected by an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems.

(4) Smokeless propellants not stored in accordance with 13.3.9 (1), (2), and (3) shall be stored in a Type 4 magazine constructed and located in accordance with Chapter 8.

Reprinted from NFPA495-85, Standard for the Manufacture, Transportation, Storage and Use of Explosive Materials, © 2001, National Fire Protection Association, Quincy, MA 02269. This reprinted material is not the complete and official position of the NFPA on the referenced subject, which is represented by the Standard in its entirety.

 

[W.E.G.]

Every county, city, or town has its own fire code.

Often, the code is only a local ordinance that "adopts" one of the model codes by reference... and sometimes with amendments.

So, you gotta look up the local code, and then you gotta hunt down a copy of the model code they incorporated by reference. You won't find the model code online ANYWHERE because the professional associations publish these codes with the intent of making money selling copies of the books and CD-ROM's.

Your local library *might* have a copy of the model code for your jurisdiction. If they do, make sure its a current copy, and the correct model code. There are two or three DIFFERENT professional associations that publish model codes. Sometimes copies can be found at the town hall, or the office of the Fire Chief.

At least one of the model codes prohibits storage of more than 1,000 small arms primers in a residential structure.

Here is a link that demonstrates how a model code (in this case the BOCA code) is adopted and incorporated by reference.
http://www.kennett-square.pa.us/cod...II__Fire_Prevention_Code_/7_30_Adoption_.html

Here is a link to some very unfavorable "amendments" to the BOCA code.
http://www.kennett-square.pa.us/cod...ion_Code_/7_31_Additions__insertions_and.html

...and for the part you were most looking forward to: the penalties (which vary widely from one locale to another)
http://www.kennett-square.pa.us/cod...General__/8_7_Penalty_for_violation_of_c.html

 

[TexasRifleman]

At least one of the model codes prohibits storage of more than 1,000 small arms primers in a residential structure.

Hell I got that many in the kitchen junk drawer

 

[Zombie_Verde]

There are also EPA Toxic Release Inventories that "must" be filled out if you have an inventory of certain chemicals over a threshold. I imagine enough lead would do it. Though I don't imagine EPA is going to be enforcing on households anytime soon.

 

[BlackBearME]

It's funny, we were just having this discussion on another board. Someone said "I know there are federal laws regarding how much powder you can store" but for the life of me, I couldn't find anything anywhere. As Librarian says, the NFPA 495 Explosives code is a model code, that I understand a lot of jurisdictions have adopted, but does not in and of itself constitute a law in full force and effect.

Oh, and:

You won't find the model code online ANYWHERE because the professional associations publish these codes with the intent of making money selling copies of the books and CD-ROM's.

That's not entirely true. If you go Here and Scroll down to where it says "View the 2006 edition of this document." You can in fact view it. Can't save it, can't print it, but it is at least viewable. Scout26 has however quoted the points relevant to this discussion.

I still can't find anything federal regarding it, though some states are restrictive. I'd hate to reload in MA. I can't find the page right now, but if I recall correctly, if you live in a building with multiple units, you can't store more than 2 pounds of powder.

 

[Librarian]

Thanks for the link, BlackBearME. Seems to be down just now, but I'll check back later.

TexasRifleman's original question was about ammunition

I'm not talking media perception of your "arsenal", I mean real law concerning holding and storing large amounts of ammo.

as distinct from bulk components used to assemble ammunition. So far as I can tell, outside of regulating commercial operations, there seems to be no Federal or State level limits to private possession of ammunition in terms of numbers of rounds.

When it comes to counties, townships or cities, there are far too many to try to survey, and I suspect most don't have their laws on-line.

---

It's available now. 14.2.2 "No quantity limitations shall be imposed on the storage of small arms ammunition ...."

So, the expert recommendation is 'no limit', but they also acknowledge "public safety regulations".

 

[BlackBearME]

TexasRifleman's original question was about ammunition

Well, that's what I get for reading into it what I wanted (I found this thread doing a search of the board for "powder storage")

So far as I can tell, outside of regulating commercial operations, there seems to be no Federal or State level limits to private possession of ammunition in terms of numbers of rounds.

There does seem to be this, in MA (the one I referenced in my above post)
http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/powder.html
PDF of the applicable regulations here:
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr_secured/527013.pdf

 

[tecrsq]

Regarding the storage of ammo in large quantities, I feel it is no big deal.

Store it in suitable containers, practice common sense and if you are so inclined:You choice may include to approach your local Fire department and simply let them know that you have it in your residence.

They should make a note of it and include it in a pre-plan which will benefit both of you should an emergency occur.

Pre incident plans are normally completed for commercial and high occupant load facilities but we have many examples of residential applications as well.

FWIW I have been in the Fire service for 20 years and we know of many enthusiasts in our community that reload and or have collections.

The pre-plan I spoke of earlier is a tool to easier mitigate an emergency with information gathered prior to said emergencies.

I have seen many examples of incidents where a pre-plan saved lives and property for the owner occupants and public safety personnel.

Ammo, powder and primers cooking off are an interesting surprise for the Fireman making the hose stretch down the dark hallway but in the end it is just another hazard that is dealt with through strategy and tactics.

Gotta love a job where ya never know what your gonna get!

 

[feedthehogs]

Most of the concern seems to come from fire departments (who, in general, appear not to enjoy ammunition 'cooking off' but don't especially fear it)

Neighbor accross the street from my mom had a house fire start. Small utility shed up against the house held a few hundred rounds of ammo.

When he told the responding fire dept about the ammo, they backed off all personal and let the house burn to the ground siteing unsafe conditions for the fire fighters.

When he tried to take a hose to it himself, the police restrained him for his own safety.

 

[brickeyee]

"Neighbor accross the street from my mom had a house fire start. Small utility shed up against the house held a few hundred rounds of ammo.

When he told the responding fire dept about the ammo, they backed off all personal and let the house burn to the ground siteing unsafe conditions for the fire fighters.

When he tried to take a hose to it himself, the police restrained him for his own safety."

Someone badly needs some more training.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yeah I was able to find several references to loading components; primer, powder etc. but nothing on factory (or hand) loaded ammo itself.

The original post I linked had some ammo company guy claiming there were limits but I've been unable to find reference to that at all.