Homicide call this week; .38 performance

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cookekdjr

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I regularly report to homicde crimes scenes as part of my job.
A perp attacked an 85-year-old man. Perp was muscular bully, started beating the elderly gentleman and tried to rob him. Perp was unarmed, but very strong.
Old man pulled his .38 S&W (I think model 10 police trade-in). Appears ammo was Winchester white box ball ammo. The cheap stuff.
First shot was to perp's right side, at rib cage.
Shot went all the way through. Haven't talked to ME yet, but appears the shot got heart and/or lungs.
Second shot was to leg. Appeared to be fleshwound.
In any event, perp died and died fast.
Police wrote it up as "Felon killed by a citizen". Old man went home.
I think I may buy another .38, this time with the 4" barrel, to go with my Taurus 85 snubbie.
-David
 
So much for the small is bad - need a 45 theories. :p To me this shows that a well placed bullet is what makes a cartridge effective. Not neccessarily the size of the projectile. Hope the elderly gentleman is ok.
 
What?? No state-of-the-art super expanding hot hollowpoints? No flashlight hanging off the end of the barrel? No laser grips? No tactical carbon fiber nothin'? Can't be....you can't possibly survive an attack without that stuff......can you? :confused:















:p
 
What?? No state-of-the-art super expanding hot hollowpoints? No flashlight hanging off the end of the barrel? No laser grips? No tactical carbon fiber nothin'? Can't be....you can't possibly survive an attack without that stuff......can you?
Click to expand...

He probably had a red dot sight and Pachmayr grip.
 
"Every police department ought to have a rubber stamp reading thus."


AND USE IT OFTEN! :neener:


The .38 is STILL Special ! ;)
 
So much for the small is bad - need a 45 theories. To me this shows that a well placed bullet is what makes a cartridge effective. Not neccessarily the size of the projectile.
Click to expand...

.22 Short has killed many people, but that does not mean it is the best defensive round. True, shot placement is important, but it may not work out that you get a center mass shot. I would rather carry something that is going to drop them even with a leg shot. .38 Spl. 130 gr. FMJ certainly can kill someone, but .45+p 185 gr. JHP or 10mm 180 gr. JHP is going to cuase much greater trauma.

The old man is smart in that he used what he had. That doesn't mean it was the most desireable defensive round. Of course, at 85, it may be the most he could handle. Glad he is OK.

Me? I'll stick with my "state-of-the-art super expanding hollow points", because I may not be as lucky and get a heart shot, should I ever be attacked by some big Goblin.
 
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Chances are the old guy is a WWII vet, and this isn't the first bully he's shot.
 
.38 caliber

As has been said many times the .38 is a very good round IF you dont use the miserable 158 grain lead round nose projectile as the many police departments were forced to use.Change to the 158gn semiwadcutter or hollowpoint and you have a very different round.low recoil, sights remain the same and the average person ( not gun enthusiast) can handle it reasonable well.
 
If I didn't feel that the .38 was up to the task, I wouldn't carry a Model 10.

That gun and cartridge combo has put a lot of bad guys into the ground for over a hundred years.
 
I am in the FMJ .32 and up crowd. Blow a hole through a person in the right place and the only difference between an 800 dollar gun and my 140 dollar Makarov is 660 dollars of ammunition to practice with.
 
Interesting read. My grandma has an old S&W 10-5. I remember her telling me that whatever it hit it would kill...perhaps a bit dramatic but I'd say the old 38 Special is up to the task if you put the bullet where it counts.
 
Mindset?

Something else occurred to me reading this thread. I wonder if the old gentleman had Post Traumatic Stress issues or if he said, "I'm glad the bas**rd is dead! He got what he deserved!" Kinda makes you wonder. Folks of that generation have a different mind-set from the generations that followed. I have talked to a couple folks of his age group who had been forced to shoot in defense and none of them had any nightmares or felt bad about depriving the perp of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I asked my neighbor (USMC vet of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam) when I was growing up if he felt bad about shooting a guy who was breaking into his house at 2:00 one morning. His reply? "Feel bad? Why?" Works for me!
 
Somebody here on THR once said, "Never pick a fight with an old man. He knows all the tricks and has nothing to lose".

I agree with that statement, and there ain't nuthin wrong with a good 'ol wheelgun :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I would rather carry something that is going to drop them even with a leg shot.
Click to expand...
Don't assume any caliber will drop "them" with a legshot. Some people will go down after taking a .22 to the leg, because of the "holy mother of god I've been shot!!" reaction. Some people will take a few .45's to the chest, and not instantly fall down. They may keep coming, they may still get to their victim.
 
As has been said many times the .38 is a very good round IF you dont use the miserable 158 grain lead round nose projectile as the many police departments were forced to use.
Click to expand...


Funny thing is, the 158 RNL was the issue round when I came on. We shot a lot of people with it, and most of them went down/died. What the 158 RNL did do was penetrate, which is something some of today's hyper expanders don't. I've actually heard, and seen, more horror stories with rounds like the 110 +P+ or the Glasers than with the old 158's.
 
My uncle was an MP in the Army. He swears by his model 10. In fact, it was the gun he recommended to me but being a new shooter and stupid, I dismissed it as being too much gun for girl. It just goes to prove that it's not just blondes that can be stupid.... :banghead: I bought a 442 instead and absolutely hated it and quickly got rid of it. The model 10 is one of the revolvers I hope to buy if only to show my uncle I developed common sense and came around finally. Last Saturday I bought a SP101 2" DAO in a .357 and really love the gun. However I feel I'd be just as protected wth my 36LS as it's not just the caliber that counts, but where you aim it.
 
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Hope when I'm 85 and some guy is trying to beat me to death i've got teh sand to draw and fire, and the skill not to miss.

Kudos to the well armed senior citizen. He's the special one in this story.

PS Winchester white box 130gr fmj doesn't shoot worth a hoot out of my Magnum Carry... but at contact range (or thereabouts) it wouldn't matter.
 
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