Hornady GMX versus Barnes Triple Shock X in 223 Remington for deer

[Balrog]

I am probably going to use one or the other of these bullets this season for deer in 223 Remington. Shots will be limited in range to 150 yards max, and probably closer to 100 yards. Deer where I hunt are around 150 pounds so not very big. I am well aware of the limitations of the 223 Remington for use of deer, and do not want the thread side tracked by that issue.

Will the Hornady GMX and Barnes TSX bullet be expected to perform similarly in this setting? The Hornady is a copper alloy, and the Barnes is 100% copper. Both tout themselves as retaining near 100% of their weight, expand, and penetrate deeply.

Also I would either use 55g or 62g bullets... the 55g will be a little faster, maybe 3250 fps versus 3100 fps. Is one weight better than the other for this application?

 

[horsey300]

I am probably going to use one or the other of these bullets this season for deer in 223 Remington. Shots will be limited in range to 150 yards max, and probably closer to 100 yards. Deer where I hunt are around 150 pounds so not very big. I am well aware of the limitations of the 223 Remington for use of deer, and do not want the thread side tracked by that issue.

Will the Hornady GMX and Barnes TSX bullet be expected to perform similarly in this setting? The Hornady is a copper alloy, and the Barnes is 100% copper. Both tout themselves as retaining near 100% of their weight, expand, and penetrate deeply.

Also I would either use 55g or 62g bullets... the 55g will be a little faster, maybe 3250 fps versus 3100 fps. Is one weight better than the other for this application?

Gmx, etip, Barnes ttsx, they're all a tipped monometal, and all perform similarly. With the weights you've chosen you'll be fine either way, when deer fall to 55gr cup and cores, you could even run the 53 tsx and be just fine . If you want to really figure out which will be best, plug all the numbers into a ballistic calculator, and look at impact velocity at 150 yds with, pick the one that hits fastest, the monometals need speed to perform properly.

 

[FN in MT]

Many years back I helped my local Game Warden with a Damage hunt during a severe winter. Mule deer climbing in hay mounds/stacks, as they were out of natural food.

I shot quite a few and the Warden did as well. We both used standard cup and core hornady spitzers, in a a .223 rem. Used a .222 Rem with 50's on another shoot a few days later. Distances were 50-60 yds max. We would shoot and the deer literally fell where they stood. In my estimation, what killed these deer so quickly, was the explosive expansion. Lungs literally liquid, when that slug went into the heart/lung area.

I'm way behind the curve with .22's for big game, as I don't do it. But as long as a guy can pop both lungs, and especially if you can get an exit ...You quickly have a dead deer. Which would make ME anyway , lean towards the HEAVIER slug to get an exit hole.

I'm sure others will reply. Just my $ .02

 

[Corn-Picker]

I'd lean towards the Barnes, simply because they've been making copper bullets the longest. I bought some Remington Premier copper ammo when it was the new thing 3-4 years ago; shot a deer at 50 yards with my 308 Winchester. The deer ran 150 yards and never bled, I was ready to give up looking when I found it. Looked like I shot it with FMJ, a small 3/8" hole through both lungs and one leg. Since then I've gone with Barnes, simply because they've been doing it longer than anyone else.

I would go with whatever weight bullet your rifle shoots better. As long as your bullet is exceeding 2400 fps at impact you will be OK.

 

[Hardtarget]

Remember, those bullets are monolithic metal projectiles....therefore a bit longer for weight. Balance your bullet choice with twist rate and shoot them to see some accuracy results.And have fun with the extra range time!
Corn-picker...( post 4 )...handed you real good info! Push them fast.
Mark

 

[herkyguy]

I tried unsuccessfully to load up 62 grain Nosler Partitions last year. From my CZ527, I couldn't get better than 3" from a steady rest at 100 yards. It's marked 1 in 9" but measures closer to 1 in 10" in reality. I gave up and opted for a .308.

Now I've got a few boxes of the TSX bullets..... you got me interested again.

 

[homers]

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html

The conclusions of this research is that lead free bullets do not kill as humanly as lead bullets.

 

[MCMXI]

The conclusions of this research is that lead free bullets do not kill as humanly as lead bullets.

I use handloads with Barnes TTSX bullets or Federal Trophy Copper factory ammunition and both work very well with no tracking required. The article has a whole bunch of "if" points and the comment re accuracy is ridiculous since the same can be said for cup and core bullets. I've worked up loads using Barnes TTSX bullets for 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .270 Win, .308 Win (two rifles), 300 WSM and .375 H&H Mag rifles and all will put five shots inside .7 moa with many a lot better than that.

Summary from the article.

• If the rifle itself is only capable of shooting a 3” group at 100 yards, the rifle will group 6” at 200 yards. Any additional human error (as happens in the field) or distance can cause shots to miss the vitals. But if the hunter uses a bullet capable of shedding weight, the vitals may still be destroyed as opposed to a narrow gut-only shot which may take days to kill.
• If the animal jumps as the hunter takes his shot (what you could call an act of nature), shot placement will be effected. Yet again, if the bullet cannot shed weight, game animals will and do suffer.
• If the hunter is not adequately trained in anatomy and uses a more generalized ‘chest shot’, the kill may be slow if using the wrong bullet.
• If the velocity of the cartridge is low as a result of its design or due to ranges (open country hunting), the kill may be very slow.
• Copper bullets can produce lower accuracy than lead core bullets depending on the individual rifle. Without alternatives, the hunter may be forced to use an inaccurate load which can pose severe problems.

 

[cdb1]

I would go with whatever weight bullet your rifle shoots better.

Yep.

 

[HOWARD J]

50 or so years ago I hunted with a .222--MI woods most shots under 80 yds
A Ranger was on the tongue of my trailer 5 am
"come in-it's warmer here & you can hear better.
I asked why they don't like us using 222.
He said that they buy 30,000 rds 222 for winter deer kill--

BUT " we are much better shots than you hunters"
right from the horses mouth!!

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The Barnes bullet is constructed of copper, which is softer than the Hornady bullet, which is constructed of guilding metal. Copper is softer than guilding metal and may foul your bore faster, which can affect accuracy.

 

[MCMXI]

Copper is softer than guilding metal and may foul your bore faster, which can affect accuracy.

How many shots down the barrel before accuracy or precision drops off enough to matter with a deer hunting rifle, assuming it drops off at all?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

How many shots down the barrel before accuracy or precision drops off enough to matter with a deer hunting rifle, assuming it drops off at all?

It depends on the physical condition of the bore in that particular barrel. The more tool marks, burrs and fouling that exists on lands and grooves the greater the potential for more metal to be scraped off the bullet as it passes through the bore. A softer metal deposits more fouling.

Why do we use bronze brushes to clean the bore? Bronze is harder than both copper and guilding metal and scrapes these metals off the bore.

 

[MCMXI]

A softer metal deposits more fouling.

I haven't experienced any fouling related accuracy issues with the seven rifles that I've worked up loads for using Barnes bullets, and I'll typically shoot 25 to 30 rounds in a session starting from a clean barrel.

Why do we use bronze brushes to clean the bore? Bronze is harder than both copper and guilding metal and scrapes these metals off the bore.

I don't pass any metal brushes through the bores of any of my rifles. I use a foaming bore cleaner followed by patches wrapped around a nylon bore brush followed by alcholol soaked patches also wrapped around a nylon bore brush.