Hospitals and CCW

[divemedic]

Florida law forbids hospitals and most other businesses or employers from banning the firearms of CCF permit-holders who work, do business with, or visit them, from being locked within those permit-holders' vehicles while parked on the premises (the so-called "take your guns to work law".)

Just so you know, the court has stated that the portion of the law that applies to employees can be enforced, but the portion relating to customers and invitees cannot.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

How would that be more a restriction than states that only issue "may issue" licenses or limited purpose of licenses or simply all no CCW at all.

Until someone wins a Heller style court case creating a precedent that CCW is a right you can't try to sue and say restricting it is infringement.

You're going about it the wrong way. It has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment but everything to do with the authority of a state over a private business.

The case can be made without ever mentioning the 2nd.

 

[DougW]

Hospitals are also off limits in Texas. No posting is necessary.

 

[Robby]

Over the last few months I have had to go to a hospital, cancer center, doctors office complex. All joined together, you can move from one to the other without ever going outside.
The Cancer center, has no signs posted, the hospital patient entrance, no sign, the visitor entrance, no sign. However, the ER, and the Doctors building have no weapons signs. Now I understand that the signs have no force of law here in KY, but it is so funny that in one connected building set, only 2 areas entrances would even be posted.
I did not carry, as I was a patient and it is hard to conceal when your in a gown, or being X rayed, or radiated.
But If I was visiting someone else, my gun will stay in place, they can ask me to leave but that is about it.

 

[Axctal]

Correction about UTAH:

!!! Only PRIVATE property may ask you to leave.

State funded hospitals CAN NOT enact their own "rules" - they have to obey state law. As such, their signs are meaningless; they can not even ask you to leave.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

The local hospital has a "no weapons" sign on the door. I'm not sure if it carries the weight of law in Montana or not. My opinion is; the weapon is the mind, all else is just a tool.

One of these days, I'll have to do some research.

900F

 

[divemedic]

You're going about it the wrong way. It has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment but everything to do with the authority of a state over a private business.

The case can be made without ever mentioning the 2nd.

Those cases have already gone to court, and the court has consistently ruled that government has the regulatory power to force owners of property to allow activities on their property.

Handicapped parking, beach access, right of way and others have all been upheld.

 

[Duke Junior]

Fella's;

The local hospital has a "no weapons" sign on the door. I'm not sure if it carries the weight of law in Montana or not. My opinion is; the weapon is the mind, all else is just a tool.

One of these days, I'll have to do some research.

You can legally carry in a hospital in Montana,CB.The sign has no force of law.
One thing Montana and my state of NC have in common.I believe they are the only 2 states that do not allow concealed financial institution carry.
Feel free to use your drive in teller however!

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Those cases have already gone to court, and the court has consistently ruled that government has the regulatory power to force owners of property to allow activities on their property.

Handicapped parking, beach access, right of way and others have all been upheld.

Which... as we all might agree... is considerable different from having to power to not allow activities on private property.

 

[divemedic]

Not really. The legal reasoning is based around the takings clause of the fifth amendment, and the courts have been pretty consistent. The government has the power to compel behavior. For example, the following laws have been challenged and found constitutional:

1 A law requiring a business located on the beach to allow people to cross the business property to gain access to the beach.

2 Handicapped parking

3 Requiring businesses to allow service animals to enter the business.

4 A law requiring a business to allow a skateboard/biking path on the property.

 

[wdlsguy]

Hospitals are also off limits in Texas. No posting is necessary.

Not true, see Texas Penal Code § 46.035(i)

 

[Bob F.]

In WV hospitals are not on the "verboten" list. However, as an employee I'm screwed. Where I work part time they have a sign that says only "ON DUTY" LEO's may carry. Yeah, right.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

All the hospitals here have the *stupid signs* (because you'd have to be stupid to put one up that says "No Weapons"). I couldn't find anyone just inside the door to tell me whether or not a pen and pocketknife are "weapons" and therefore prohibited, so I assumed that must mean that whether an item is a weapon depends on the intent of the user. I had no ill intent, so I figure they must not mean to prohibit my CCW gun. So in I go......

 

[JackBurtonJr]

"Not really. The legal reasoning is based around the takings clause of the fifth amendment, and the courts have been pretty consistent. The government has the power to compel behavior."

Once again... all your examples have to do with the government forcing a private business to do something proactive, either to behave a certain way or to provide certain services.... which is quite different from forcing a private business not to allow CCW.

Plus, every one of your examples can be justified by the state (however poorly) as "benefitting" greater society.

Care to tell us just how they can justify a "benefit to society" for people not being allowed by law to carry in a doctor's office when in virtually every other private business the government chooses to be neutral?

 

[Valkman]

It's legal here unless there's a sign, and I've never looked for a sign! I really don't care if they don't want my CCW in there, it's going in if I am.

 

[divemedic]

Once again... all your examples have to do with the government forcing a private business to do something proactive, either to behave a certain way or to provide certain services.... which is quite different from forcing a private business not to allow CCW.

Plus, every one of your examples can be justified by the state (however poorly) as "benefitting" greater society.

Care to tell us just how they can justify a "benefit to society" for people not being allowed by law to carry in a doctor's office when in virtually every other private business the government chooses to be neutral?

Sigh. It does not matter if there is a benefit to society or not- the only think the court is concerned with is constitutionality of a law. There is nothing in the COTUS that requires a reason or benefit to the law. Finding benefit is up to the legislative branch, not the judiciary. Whether you or I agree is not an issue- if we don't like it, we can vote in a legislator that will change it.

Florida passed a law prohibiting an employer from taking disciplinary action against an employee who has a firearm in his car, or who refuses to allow his car to be searched for firearms. This law is likely to be found constitutional.

A law prohibiting a business owner from allowing smoking in his building is constitutionally no different from prohibiting carry in his building. OSH laws prohibit certain behaviors AND require certain other behaviors, and have been found on many occasions to be constitutional. That is just the way it is.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Sigh. It does not matter if there is a benefit to society or not- the only think the court is concerned with is constitutionality of a law.

Not when a singular type of business is differentiated by the law.

A law prohibiting a business owner from allowing smoking in his building is constitutionally no different from prohibiting carry in his building.

And how long do you think it would stand if the law read that, out of all the types of businesses in the state, only tire stores could not permit smoking in the store?

And the reason why the courts let these laws stand in the first place is the "benefit to society" standard. From where else does a state somehow gain the power to demand a private business do anything?

It certainly isn't found in any Constitution, federal or state.

We have not yet reached the time when the state is all powerful.