I just finished removing the cosmoline from my SKS. Which also removed some of the bluing on it as well. I'm going to work on rebluing it. I"m never rebuled a gun before and was wonder if anyone had tips or advice that might be helpful in the process.
Hot bluing
- Thread starter js6seaj
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BBBBill
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Well, there are only two types of real bluing, hot bluing with salts and rust bluing. Even real bluing doesn't offer much protection from rust because it IS rust. Cold bluing is not really bluing at all, but simply a stain on the metal with little to no protective properties.
Hot bluing requires the most expenditure to set up for. Tanks, burners, bluing salts, etc. Pretty costly for only a few guns. I would not spend the money unless you plan to do many. There are hot bluing formulas in old gunsmithing books that work, but can get you hurt really quick if you make a mistake. Some folks come up with "guerrilla gunsmithing" bluing methods based on some of those old methods.
Rust bluing is far less expensive and relatively easy to do, although it is labor intensive. You can probably get set up for that for $100-200 depending on how well you can scrounge.
Parkerizing is a less attractive, but more durable finish and can be done for similar price to rust bluing.
Bottom line - How much do you want to spend?
Hot bluing requires the most expenditure to set up for. Tanks, burners, bluing salts, etc. Pretty costly for only a few guns. I would not spend the money unless you plan to do many. There are hot bluing formulas in old gunsmithing books that work, but can get you hurt really quick if you make a mistake. Some folks come up with "guerrilla gunsmithing" bluing methods based on some of those old methods.
Rust bluing is far less expensive and relatively easy to do, although it is labor intensive. You can probably get set up for that for $100-200 depending on how well you can scrounge.
Parkerizing is a less attractive, but more durable finish and can be done for similar price to rust bluing.
Bottom line - How much do you want to spend?
herrwalther
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Cosmoline removal should not have harmed the bluing, unless you were using something pretty harsh or hard scrubbing with something abrasive. Either way, hot caustic bluing is an expensive setup to do properly. You might be able to get away with a 1 tank setup for the bluing salts out of a typical 5 tank system. So how much you want to spend is an important question. Another option is to find a gunsmith that is setup to do bluing in your area.
Another is, how much bluing is gone? If it only came off in small areas, caustic bluing isn't feasible in price or practical area. No reason to spend $5000 on a setup for a little wear. For small areas you can use a cold blue like BC Super Blue.
Another is, how much bluing is gone? If it only came off in small areas, caustic bluing isn't feasible in price or practical area. No reason to spend $5000 on a setup for a little wear. For small areas you can use a cold blue like BC Super Blue.
skeeterfogger
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Have helped with hot bluing. Quite an elaborate set up. Getting the solution to the correct mix at temp was touchy. Too much salts an the metal comes out green. Too little and the color is iffy.
I've done a few barrels for muzzle loaders with perma blue and yes it needs monitoring and occasional touch up but can come out looking pretty good.
If you are going to have to do tje entire gun needless to say it will have to be completely stripped. Any remaining finish removed and that's the easy part.
As with any finish the prep is going to dictate end.
Clean then super clean and once clean massive glove handling clean and don't wait to put the finish on it.
The person I was helping would when they had small stuff or a single item, barrel, receiver or even just one gun would make up a small amount in a tank like the size of a gallon paint can. Put an ooen end trough just big enough for the item at an angle, one end returning to tank. Then use a ladle to flood pour solution over the part. I never saw him do it and he said you have to flood pour some longer than the submerged time but if you kept the solution moving it did work. Don't know what degree of angle for the trough but figure just enough that the solution floods well but doesn't cool too much. I can only guess. But it was their way of not having to fire up a lot of equipment for one gun or a few parts. Wish I had seen them do it so I could provide better explanation.
I've done a few barrels for muzzle loaders with perma blue and yes it needs monitoring and occasional touch up but can come out looking pretty good.
If you are going to have to do tje entire gun needless to say it will have to be completely stripped. Any remaining finish removed and that's the easy part.
As with any finish the prep is going to dictate end.
Clean then super clean and once clean massive glove handling clean and don't wait to put the finish on it.
The person I was helping would when they had small stuff or a single item, barrel, receiver or even just one gun would make up a small amount in a tank like the size of a gallon paint can. Put an ooen end trough just big enough for the item at an angle, one end returning to tank. Then use a ladle to flood pour solution over the part. I never saw him do it and he said you have to flood pour some longer than the submerged time but if you kept the solution moving it did work. Don't know what degree of angle for the trough but figure just enough that the solution floods well but doesn't cool too much. I can only guess. But it was their way of not having to fire up a lot of equipment for one gun or a few parts. Wish I had seen them do it so I could provide better explanation.
FROGO207
Member
Seeings that all the old timey guys around here that did it died at a earlier age than the other gunsmiths. From this observation I feel it is dangerous enough that I will pay to get it done should the need arise. I get by with heating the part to the 150* range and applying cold blue in layers, carding off with 0000 steel wool between coats and heating each time till I am happy with the match.
GBExpat
Member
... or ... someone in the re-arse process used some of the sneaky blue-black pigmented shellac to cover wear areas and make the rifle look better.
I have come across a lot of that black shellac on re-arsed Mosin-Nagants and SVT-40s.
rangervoss
Member
I shopped around over time and found all the supplies I needed at a quite affordable price. I use Christy salts and they are very forgiving. I read a lot and asked folks who had done or are currently doing it and I learned. I spent way more time than I did money getting into this business but that being said, it is not cheap either way. But it sure is fun and nothing beats a gun coming out of the salts looking like a million bucks. I would not do this for just a couple guns. I am in it for the long haul and folks who do this are disappearing. I have found lots of advice from people who clearly have no idea how to hot blue and needless to say, they are usually guessing and most often are full of crap. If you just want your SKS to look good (if there is such an SKS) then cold blue it in spots and be happy. Like others have said, do not confuse cold blue application to mean that you reblued it, they are not even in the same world other than sharing the word "blue."
I learned you can do Nitrate bluing. (IF you can get it hot enough. PS don't try this on an electric stove!) Then I tried kind of my own method of applying cold bluing, heating with a small plumbing propane torch, and quenching. (And repeat) I think it came out ok. Also rubbed with rags a 0000 steel wool.
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SGW Gunsmith
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That's funny, 'cause that's part of how I got started "rust bluing". Was driving along a back road up here looking for a place that was selling "shell corn", and spotted an old gas grill sitting at the end of someone's driveway. Sign read "FREE, so it was put in the bed of my truck. Works great and has been doing so for a very long time:
I usually recommend people who want to blue without making it a business to try Parkerizing first. 1/10 the setup cost, 1/100 the personal injury risk, 10x more rust resistant, and 3X more abrasion resistant. Still a chemical conversion, does not change parts dimensions, and looks nice. An SKS looks good. A setup to Parkerize an SKS will probably cost about $200-250. I set up to do handguns for around $60 10 years ago. The biggest cost would be the stainless steel tank that can hold the action, and the burners to keep the temp. Parkerizing will not melt your skin off at room temperature with a mild splash (don't keep in on too long thou), and doesn't require heating to instant 3rd degree burn temp either. I run my tank at 173°F, I think bluing requires around 280°. Parkerize also does not require fine polish.
GBExpat
Member
IIRC, I was having to get my Red Devil Lye Back-Patio-Bluing-Witch's-Brew mixture up to ~300°F or a bit more
to do a proper job. It was incredibly nasty/dangerous stuff with which to work.After that, I found parkerizing to be eeeeeeeeasy.
BTW, for my tanks I got some properly-sized pieces of ¼" plate steel for under the tanks (they rest on the plate). The tanks heat more evenly and it keeps the bare flames out of direct contact with the tank material. Just a thought.
I haven't run a batch in a long(!) time. Now that I am thinking about it again, I will have to check on that equipment.
bluing is scary stuff. When you get to the part about 300° Lye, I hope most people loose interest. The funny thing I found about Parkerizing, its cheaper, safer, far far easier than even ceracote, or spray painting. You would think it would be more popular. Its been the standard for almost 100 years for modern military's.IIRC, I was having to get my Red Devil Lye Back-Patio-Bluing-Witch's-Brew mixture up to ~300°F or a bit more
After that, I found parkerizing to be eeeeeeeeasy.
BTW, for my tanks I got some properly-sized pieces of ¼" plate steel for under the tanks (they rest on the plate). The tanks heat more evenly and it keeps the bare flames out of direct contact with the tank material. Just a thought.
I haven't run a batch in a long(!) time. Now that I am thinking about it again, I will have to check on that equipment.
I spent the lion's share of my free time at college running the bluing room. I don't consider it especially dangerous, though a good finish does require considerable prep, a knowledge of the process, and the ability to modify said process when it doesn't go as advertised. The latter happens more than you might think. Once you've got some time and practice in you can do just about anything with it.
The cost of setting up to do caustic probably isn't worth it for one or two guns. There's also the matter of how you dispose of your salts. Some municipalities make an issue, some don't.
Rust bluing has its own pitfalls, with the caveat that you can set up considerably cheaper in exchange for a move involved and hands-on process. Good deal if you have the patience, and some guns just don't look right wearing a modern caustic blue. It always seemed to be that catching and fixing errors i caustic was easier. I suspect opinions may vary.
Done right, nitre bluing looks like a million bucks. I honestly didn't do much and was never really comfortable with the process. Given the relative fragility of resulting colors, I never found much use for it on personal projects.
Finally, about the only time I'd use cold blue of any sort is on small parts (screws or pins) with a bald spot or to cover something that won't be seen. G96 is the best I've found for this application and it's still a crapshoot. Brownells isn't quite as good but will serve in a pinch. Birchwood Casey's mixture is the best scam ever devised.
The cost of setting up to do caustic probably isn't worth it for one or two guns. There's also the matter of how you dispose of your salts. Some municipalities make an issue, some don't.
Rust bluing has its own pitfalls, with the caveat that you can set up considerably cheaper in exchange for a move involved and hands-on process. Good deal if you have the patience, and some guns just don't look right wearing a modern caustic blue. It always seemed to be that catching and fixing errors i caustic was easier. I suspect opinions may vary.
Done right, nitre bluing looks like a million bucks. I honestly didn't do much and was never really comfortable with the process. Given the relative fragility of resulting colors, I never found much use for it on personal projects.
Finally, about the only time I'd use cold blue of any sort is on small parts (screws or pins) with a bald spot or to cover something that won't be seen. G96 is the best I've found for this application and it's still a crapshoot. Brownells isn't quite as good but will serve in a pinch. Birchwood Casey's mixture is the best scam ever devised.
BBBBill
Member
I've used a gas grill to heat the water for rust bluing. Works fine.
Diffuser plates! They absolutely work to your benefit.
SGW Gunsmith
Member
That's all I;ve been doing for the last 20 years, or so. Caustic salts bluing is way too messy and the depleted salts need to go to a hazmat disposal place. Nothing like that involved with "rust bluing", and it looks fairly nice when done:
Jim Watson
Member
When my house burned in The Incident of 2010, the long guns not in the small safe were all damaged by smoke and water, not flame. Surprisingly, my homeowner's insurance paid for refinish, a total of $7000. A local gunsmith did good to excellent work.
Some got Oxphoblue. He has a technique different from Brownells that gives as good appearance as factory hot blue.
I don't know how well it wears, these are "range guns" that don't get knocked around.
Shotguns were rust blued in case the ribs were soft soldered.
Others were sent to another shop for hot blue. Bruce has the setup but considers it too much trouble to run.
Stock finishes ranged from good as new to better than factory, although the Browning isn't as shiny as it used to be.
There were three guns I did not have him refinish. My CAS shotgun and lever action were so worn and patinated that a refinish would have just looked hokey. They cleaned up looking no worse for the wear. The 10-22 barrel was not rusted nor the stock peeling; I just scrubbed the gummy soot off with Ballistol on fine steel wool.
Some got Oxphoblue. He has a technique different from Brownells that gives as good appearance as factory hot blue.
I don't know how well it wears, these are "range guns" that don't get knocked around.
Shotguns were rust blued in case the ribs were soft soldered.
Others were sent to another shop for hot blue. Bruce has the setup but considers it too much trouble to run.
Stock finishes ranged from good as new to better than factory, although the Browning isn't as shiny as it used to be.
There were three guns I did not have him refinish. My CAS shotgun and lever action were so worn and patinated that a refinish would have just looked hokey. They cleaned up looking no worse for the wear. The 10-22 barrel was not rusted nor the stock peeling; I just scrubbed the gummy soot off with Ballistol on fine steel wool.
BBBBill
Member
I love the look of a good rust blue job!
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