Has anyone tried using household ammonia for removing copper fouling? I've heard that one of the copper fouling removal products is nothing more than a glycol (probably to make it more viscous and stick to the barrel walls) and ammonia mix. I'm thinking a similar mixture of ammonia and a viscous agent (I think anti-freezes have glycol in them?) either liberally applied with patches or allowed to sit in a plugged barrel would be relatively safe and economical as long as it was obviously removed in a reasonable time-frame. What do you think?
Household Ammonia For Copper Fouling?
- Thread starter HGM22
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230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
I seem to recall the old "ammonia dope" to remove copper fouling was pretty good, but you had to cork the barrel (as you mentioned) at both ends to make sure air could not get at it or else it would corrode the barrel itself where the air contacted it.
It's in Hatcher's Notebook in the ammo development and gun corrosion chapter, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.
Yes, ammonia will attack/remove copper and is in many modern fouling dopes, but maybe the concentrations are less or the reaction with iron and air is suppressed.... maybe by the goopy or oily additives. Yes, most antifreeze is propylene glycol plus other stuff to inhibit corrosion on the steel and aluminum engine parts.
Might work with chrome barrels, though.
I'd just stick with commercial jacket fouling removers and not experiment too much (or at all) with household ammonia, which they usually say is 28%*.
At least not on a shootin' gun. Don't forget manufacturers and the (then) Ordnance Department had lots of barrels to play with... along with the ammo to do the fouling with.
A review of that chapter I mentioned will be instructive. Outdated, but instructive.
Terry, 230RN
* The percentages cited vary quite a bit.
It's in Hatcher's Notebook in the ammo development and gun corrosion chapter, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.
Yes, ammonia will attack/remove copper and is in many modern fouling dopes, but maybe the concentrations are less or the reaction with iron and air is suppressed.... maybe by the goopy or oily additives. Yes, most antifreeze is propylene glycol plus other stuff to inhibit corrosion on the steel and aluminum engine parts.
Might work with chrome barrels, though.
I'd just stick with commercial jacket fouling removers and not experiment too much (or at all) with household ammonia, which they usually say is 28%*.
At least not on a shootin' gun. Don't forget manufacturers and the (then) Ordnance Department had lots of barrels to play with... along with the ammo to do the fouling with.
A review of that chapter I mentioned will be instructive. Outdated, but instructive.
Terry, 230RN
* The percentages cited vary quite a bit.
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When you start mixing chemicals that you know nothing about things can get interesting. Def
, diesel exhaust fluid, is basically a urea and water liquid. So it for all intents and purposes it is ammonia. In the truck dealer ship I work at we see def end up in cooling systems when people are careless. It doesn't take much to make a highly corrosive mess. I have seen it eat the thermostats right apart and pit the engine blocks and cylinder liners. Nothing like a $20,000 bill on a new truck. You would be creating a similar situation by mixing antifreeze and ammonia. Anti freeze also has a lot of other stuff that isn't glycol in it. How it would react with powder residue and anything else is a guess. Maybe try it on somebody elses guns first.
, diesel exhaust fluid, is basically a urea and water liquid. So it for all intents and purposes it is ammonia. In the truck dealer ship I work at we see def end up in cooling systems when people are careless. It doesn't take much to make a highly corrosive mess. I have seen it eat the thermostats right apart and pit the engine blocks and cylinder liners. Nothing like a $20,000 bill on a new truck. You would be creating a similar situation by mixing antifreeze and ammonia. Anti freeze also has a lot of other stuff that isn't glycol in it. How it would react with powder residue and anything else is a guess. Maybe try it on somebody elses guns first.
Jim Watson
Member
If you want to mix tested cleaning products from hardware store chemicals, see
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm
Note that what you are talking about would be "Humpy's White" made with "janitor's ammonia," regular sudsy ammonia, and dish soap.
Ed's Red Plus might do what you want with more mixing but more uses.
Ammonia Dope calls for ammonium persulfate which I do not know a retail source for. It is rather dangerous to steel, especially at the interface between liquid and gas. Proper use requires a stopper in the chamber and a rubber tube stretched over the muzzle to get the liquid level above the barrel.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm
Note that what you are talking about would be "Humpy's White" made with "janitor's ammonia," regular sudsy ammonia, and dish soap.
Ed's Red Plus might do what you want with more mixing but more uses.
Ammonia Dope calls for ammonium persulfate which I do not know a retail source for. It is rather dangerous to steel, especially at the interface between liquid and gas. Proper use requires a stopper in the chamber and a rubber tube stretched over the muzzle to get the liquid level above the barrel.
fouled bore
Member
I tried an unconventional cleaning product once and it removed the bluing from the gun [emoji35]
Shawn Dodson
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- Dec 28, 2002
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- 3,195
Just use Hoppe's #9. It removes copper as well as any specialized copper solvent.
Use a bronze brush and push it thru the bore and back 30 times, dipping the brush every 5 cycles in Hoppe's. This removes hard carbon deposits and the bronze, being harder than copper, removes some copper. Then push patches soaked in Hoppe's thru the bore on a jag until the patches come out clean. Let the bore soak for an hour then push another wet patch thru. Repeat every hour until there is no more green copper oxide on the patch.
Use a bronze brush and push it thru the bore and back 30 times, dipping the brush every 5 cycles in Hoppe's. This removes hard carbon deposits and the bronze, being harder than copper, removes some copper. Then push patches soaked in Hoppe's thru the bore on a jag until the patches come out clean. Let the bore soak for an hour then push another wet patch thru. Repeat every hour until there is no more green copper oxide on the patch.
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denton
Member
Janitorial ammonia is 10% ammonia. Household ammonia is about 3%. You can mix about 50% cheap liquid detergent with 50% janitorial ammonia and get a solution that functions a lot like Sweet's 7.62. I've used it, it works, and it's cheap.
But, like the man said, spring for something a little more modern, like Wipe Out.
Urea is not ammonia.
But, like the man said, spring for something a little more modern, like Wipe Out.
Urea is not ammonia.
.308 Norma
Member
What about those new CFE (copper fouling eliminator) powders from Hornady? Does anyone know if they work?
Sorry. Will start a new thread. I meant Hodgdon anyway, not Hornady.
Sorry. Will start a new thread. I meant Hodgdon anyway, not Hornady.
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CZ9shooter
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I work with 99.9% ammonia at work. It does not react with any common steel type that I am aware of. But it is common knowledge in my field that copper based metals will corrode badly when exposed to it. I have never seen it in action though because we just simply will not use copper or brass due to this fact.
So I do feel that what is being suggested contains a certain degree of truth. I could see it breaking up fouling making for easier removal. However, I would guess that the reaction would be slow at low concentrations. High concentrations are hard to get. And it is VERY nasty stuff.
I would just move on to something else.
So I do feel that what is being suggested contains a certain degree of truth. I could see it breaking up fouling making for easier removal. However, I would guess that the reaction would be slow at low concentrations. High concentrations are hard to get. And it is VERY nasty stuff.
I would just move on to something else.
denton
Member
230RN...
I'm not doing well with the PM function. Did you get my response?
I'm not doing well with the PM function. Did you get my response?
denton
Member
Ammonia chemically reacts with copper to form copper hydroxide, which is blue.
Even fairly small amounts of ammonia will leech copper out of brass, leaving it brittle.
When the Brits were in India, they had persistent problems with their cartridge brass cracking during the monsoon season. The problem was finally traced to the fact that the ammunition was stored in the horse barn, and horse barns tend to have a lot of ammonia in the air from horse poop.
So don't clean brass with ammonia compounds. Or horse poop.
Even fairly small amounts of ammonia will leech copper out of brass, leaving it brittle.
When the Brits were in India, they had persistent problems with their cartridge brass cracking during the monsoon season. The problem was finally traced to the fact that the ammunition was stored in the horse barn, and horse barns tend to have a lot of ammonia in the air from horse poop.
So don't clean brass with ammonia compounds. Or horse poop.
Curator
Member
Nothing I have used is more effective in cleaning badly copper or cupro-nickle fouled barrels than regular household ammonia cleaner (2%) For severely copper fouled barrels I first de-grease (or remove nitro fouling) with Acetone or "Gun-Scrubber" then plug the muzzle with a rubber stopper and fill the bore right unto the chamber with the ammonia cleaner. I let the rifle sit on its muzzle overnight (12+ hours) and then uncork to release the blue liquid carrying the copper. A severely fouled barrel might need an additional overnight soaking. I have brought back to life many, many barrels considered "shot-out" by removing the copper fouling with this method.
50 Shooter
member
With modern cleaners/surfectants, why would you want to expose yourself hazardous chemicals?
Boretech's Eliminator, Wipe-out and Slip2000 will do the job faster and safer as they are 100% non toxic. Clean smarter and safer, ammonia can mess you up quick, be sure to use in a well ventilated space. The other cleaners w/o ammonia are safe to use anywhere.
Boretech's Eliminator, Wipe-out and Slip2000 will do the job faster and safer as they are 100% non toxic. Clean smarter and safer, ammonia can mess you up quick, be sure to use in a well ventilated space. The other cleaners w/o ammonia are safe to use anywhere.
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