How a Witch Hunt starts

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheeBadOne

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
2,217
Location
Nemo sine vitio est
Councilman questions police shooting

A Cleveland city councilman is calling for an investigation into the death of a 24-year-old East Side man shot by police on Sunday.

Sgt. Donna Bell, a police spokeswoman, said Monday that the officer fired his gun as he struggled with Brandon Robinson, who had taken the gun from the officer's holster. Robinson, of East 154th Street, died of a gunshot wound to his chest.

Councilman Zack Reed said he has talked to at least one witness who contradicted the police version of the shooting.

Reed knocked on doors Monday looking for residents who might have witnessed the shooting. He said one woman visiting her daughter on East 151st Street told him she saw an officer chasing a man and tackling him.

Reed said the woman told him there was no struggle, as stated by police. She said she saw the man kneeling before the officer with his hands in the air, as if surrendering, and then the man slumped and fell to the ground.

"We will be thoroughly investigating this one," Reed said. "There are too many conflicting stories. My gut feeling is telling me this is not good. There's more to this."

Bell gave this account of the incident:

Two 4th District officers investigating suspected drug activity on East 151st Street near Kinsman Road about 4 p.m. approached a parked car, which had two people inside. The officers had their guns drawn and reported smelling marijuana coming from the car.

Police handcuffed the driver, an 18-year-old man, to the steering wheel. Robinson, who has a history of minor drug convictions, was taken out of the car but refused to be handcuffed.

Robinson ran and an officer tackled him after a brief chase. The two fought on the ground. Robinson punched the officer and grabbed the officer's revolver. The other officer tried to help his partner and was elbowed in the forehead. The officer on the ground pulled the trigger of his gun once while he and Robinson struggled.

Authorities have refused for two days to release the name of the officer involved in the shooting. Bell said his name will be released today.

As is standard practice in police shootings, the officer has been placed on a three-day paid leave while the shooting is investigated.

Celeste Glasgow, Mayor Jane Campbell's spokeswoman, said Monday that members of the city's Community Relations crisis intervention team had begun outreach efforts in the neighborhood and that those efforts will increase in the next couple days.

article
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WoW. A guy who wasn't there, spoke to one person who claims they were nearby, and suddenly it's "We will be thoroughly investigating this one," Reed said. "There are too many conflicting stories. My gut feeling is telling me this is not good. There's more to this."
Apparently his gut is not too objective. There's no problem with looking closely at Police shootings, but this does not appear to be impartial. Instead, it appears he went seeking an outcome (knocking on doors on his own until he found someone who said or would say what he wanted to hear).
confused.gif
 
This is why I prefer to read a book under a shade tree.
Less chance of getting raliroaded by evil politicians with an agenda.
 
"Reed said the woman told him there was no struggle, as stated by police. She said she saw the man kneeling before the officer with his hands in the air, as if surrendering, and then the man slumped and fell to the ground. "


So let me get this straight. The cops ran the guy down, caught him and then shot him execution style in the middle of the street? OK then. And even better after going door to door looking for witnesses they find 1 person. Man where did I put that title for that bridge I own in San Fran. If anyone believes that story I got a deal for them.
 
Until we hear all of what Councilman Reed calls "conflicting stories" we won't know. I would like to hear what the other officer says. If I wanted to jump to a conclusion I would say that Reed is jumping to conclusions.
 
It's even better than that....

He said one woman visiting her daughter on East 151st Street told him she saw an officer chasing a man and tackling him.
If I interpret that right, it's third hand, as in "A woman told me that she spoke to her daughter and she said..."
 
Reed said the woman told him there was no struggle, as stated by police. She said she saw the man kneeling before the officer with his hands in the air, as if surrendering, and then the man slumped and fell to the ground.

Read it again. The daughter didn't witness it - the woman who was visiting her daughter says she herself witnessed it.
 
TBO, in your zeal, you misread the article. On one side, someone is relating a report from at least one witness:
Councilman Zack Reed said he has talked to at least one witness who contradicted the police version of the shooting.

On the other side, someone is relating a report from another witness:
Sgt. Donna Bell, a police spokeswoman, said Monday that the officer fired his gun as he struggled with Brandon Robinson, who had taken the gun from the officer's holster.
Its clear, from the title of this thread, and countless other postings, that you will believe without question the "official account", and/or rush to judgement. Need I remind you of the Yancey thread?

I'd encourage you to broaden your horizons, and view these incidents in context of the overall track record of the dept. involved. I.e, how is Cleveland PD doing with regard to officer-involved shootings? Are there unresolved charges of race bias? Please post if you have personal knowledge of these aspects...

Rather than debate who did what to whom, I keep hoping that this and other incidents might provoke a startling revelation among more folks, namely that the "war on some drugs" is a total and utter failure. That the carnage on both sides is unacceptable. Face it, here's a case where a couple of potheads are busted; end result is death.

Big victory, huh?
 
I thought this was interesting:

"Robinson ran and an officer tackled him after a brief chase. The two fought on the ground. Robinson punched the officer and grabbed the officer's revolver."

I didn't think revolvers were used by Cleveland P.D. Maybe a detective's weapon? Or maybe the author was just ignorant of firearms as usual.

I'm all for the investigation into any police shooting, but the minute the officer's story is proven true, the case should be dropped.

If it really happened as the story states (from the officer's perspective), the n any suspect that grabs an officer's firearm deserves what he/she gets. It would seem that danger is imminent at that point.

Please post any follow ups.
 
He said - she said ..... she said - he said. The report so far seems way too confusing to make any real judgement ... perhaps .... just perhaps ... after another two days, or more ...... some hard data might be accrued.

I am learning just how NOT to take anything much of this sorta stuff at face value.
 
No Worries

Forensics will tell who is lying. If the man was shot struggling for a gun, he will have a contact wound. If shot from the front while kneeling, it will be totally different. The wound will be in a different place and at a different angle. This should take the coroner about five seconds to resolve.
 
hammer

Howdy, still no Xmas card in my mailbox. :D
There is no "official version" here, just a newspaper article. As for how it's written, quickly by appearences. My assumption (yes, assumption) was based the address of the incident and the address of the "witness". It is possible that "MoM" was visiting her daughter again when Mr. Councilman came knocking, but it's clear the "Witness" doesn't live where Mr. Councilman knocked, thus opening the possibility of the resident relating the "story".

"Its clear, from the title of this thread, and countless other postings, that you will believe without question the "official account", and/or rush to judgement."

Vise-Versa back at you sir.

"I'd encourage you to broaden your horizons" ..yet you post; "view these incidents in context of the overall track record of the dept. involved. I.e, how is Cleveland PD doing with regard to officer-involved shootings? Are there unresolved charges of race bias?"

Now, you may take that into account as far as launching a look at an incident, but as far as incidents, they are all individual. Say the proverbial "Tin-Hat's" nightmare town exists, where 100 Police shootings in a row are bad, that doesn't automaticaly make this one "bad too".
If indeed a Dept has a bad rep, that too has no bearing on whether a shoot is good or not, only the individual facts of the incident. I encourage you to keep that in mind Sr.


"Face it, here's a case where a couple of potheads are busted; end result is death."

My gosh, speaking of jumping the gun, to what do you draw that conclusion from?


All the best

TBO
 
to what do you draw that conclusion from?

I may not agree with his other conclusions, but that pretty much is straight from the article.
It does say "suspected drug activity" but it also says the officer smelled marijuana.
 
Police: 1; Potheads: 0

I'm not gonna stay awake tonight mourning over the killing of one pot head.

Hopefully the departed pot head had something truly serious in his background other than congenital stupidity, which isn't yet against the law.

I'm a pretty libertarian kinda guy, but I think dudes in an automobile reeking of wacky tobaccy ought to be investigated same as dudes in a car reeking of cheap vodka.
 
SO what we have here is a cop telling one story and an uninvolved witness telling a different story. The result, and investigation. One's view on the world would have to be a little distorted to see THAT as a witch hunt.
 
How a witch Hunt starts

Um, lemme guess, first you need a witch?

No, the truth (verified by modern forensics) is that all you need is some looney people. The Salem witch trials and the surrounding paranoia was traced back to damp grain which grew a mold which had effects similar to LSD. Since everyone ate bread, they all hallucinated regularly and had to attribute this to something: witchcraft. There are detailed journals about seeing people turn into demons and beasts. This all came about due to unusually wet weather and the storage methods used for the grain, leading to a whole group of people who were stoned out of their minds.

They guy who discovered LSD had a similar problem: he didn't know it's effects or realize it could be absorbed through the skin from prolonged exposure. He eventually became so looney he checked himself into a mental ward believeing he had become schizophrenic. A couple of days later when he returned to normal, he figured it out.
 
I didn't think revolvers were used by Cleveland P.D. Maybe a detective's weapon? Or maybe the author was just ignorant of firearms as usual.
Maybe it was a revolver, maybe an automatic, but the press does tend to refer to any pistol carried by a police officer as a "service revolver," as it is pretty much a part of the language.
 
Why'd they handcuff the guy to the steering wheel? Is that standard procedure in Cleveland? Wouldn't it make it tough to get him down to the jail? :confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top