How can I fix a loose loading lever holding wedge in an Uberti 1861 Navy

[Doc Rizzi]

I recently purchased a pair of Uberti 1861 Navy's that are beautiful. Both have very smooth action. One of them has a loading lever holder wedge that is so loose that if the gun is tipped it will fall out of the wedge holder with a little shaking. I want to secure the wedge in place, but I am not sure how to go about this. I have had a easy time with using a file to fit a tight wedge, but never the opposite. I am of the mind to think that a few taps with a hammer and properly placed punch will tighten up the space a little....I am hesitant to silver solder or use any form of adhesive on the wedge. I would value an opinion or two before I mess it up...lol.

 

[mike101]

You can take away metal, but you can't add metal.
Send it back, and exchange it for one that's right.

 

[pohill]

mikeburk101 is right - the gun is under warranty for a year. I called Taylors the other day for the exact same propblem - the loading lever latch on my 1862 Pocket Police keeps falling out (I've had it over a year - if it was still on warranty I'd send it to Taylors). Taylors gunsmith told me how to fix it - use a flat chisel and whack the dovetail down onto the loose part. But, I'd rather they do it in case it gets messed up.

 

[mec]

I have two that do that. I used that fix several times but the swould always come loose again. I finally just went ahead and put a dab of J&B weld on them and that fixed things.

 

[Doc Rizzi]

The rational part of me says that I should send it back for replacement....but

I ordered the pair in August...and it took until December for them to come. I want to use them in CAAS and I don't want to wait months to get it replaced. I will attempt the carefully placed "whack" to tighten up the space, that seems like the correct fix. I like the simplicity of the JB weld though....but I am concerned about the effect of the recoil over time breaking the bond loose during a shoot and having the lever fall down....I will let you know how it turns out. I have tightened wedges on black powder rifles this way...but this is smaller and more delicate so I will proceed carefully. Thank you for your input.

 

[mec]

I used a brass punch to tighten up the dovetail as prescribed above. There seems to be significant vibration or torque out there on the end of the barrel and the catch starts to walk pretty quickly on two revolvers So, I threw up my hands and treated the thing with j&b weld. Both guns have held ever since through several hot-water wash and dry sequences.

 

[Doc Rizzi]

Ok....I will try both...

I will go with the dab of JB, then close it up a little with the punch before it sets and see how that goes.

 

[mec]

You said it took you six months to get this pair. This is interesting and scary since it may indicate a backslide into the distribution practices of past years. Are these revolvers becoming unavailable again? Tell me the details if you don't mind.

 

[mike101]

Dealers started talking about a shortage of Ubertis several months ago, mostly regarding the Remmies. Colts were in short supply, but Remmies were non-existant.

 

[mec]

a few months ago, you could get just about any colt replica from several different sources. I attempted to order a paterson from Cimarron and found them out of stock. Same thing with a Rogers and Spencer from Dixie. The Midway site now lists almost all piettas as either out of stock or "Special order" and the bulk of the ubertis on that site are either out of stock, special order or showing only three or four examples currently in stock.
These things happen when we are in a protracted war. There are also shortages of ammunition and handloading components.

 

[rifle]

Those dovetailed loading lever latches on Ubertis have a problem sometimes in that there isn't enough dovetailed metal to hold the loading lever latch. That's why JB Weld or solder help in conjunction with peening the edges of the dovetail onto the part tighter.
Thing is...metal has elasticity so if the dovetail is wacked down onto the part that's in the dovetail it gets tight but not tight enough. The part has to be taken out of the dovetail and then the dovetail peened down some so it gets peened what seems to be too far to get the part back in. That way once the part is back in the dovetail the dovetail metal trys to go back to the "too far" position which makes for a real tight fit.
Trick is to get the part back in the dovetail that has been peened down to what seems too far. Take a fine swiss file and ever so lightly take the sharp edge off the sides of the part that will be started in first so the edges can't shave metal. Keep the part straight and down into the bottom of the dovetail while it's being tapped back in so the part isn't wobbling around widdening the dovetail too much. Just start the part in perfectly straight. Once it's back into the dovetail that was peened down too much for it to atually fit it'll be tight and stay.
It's just that to peen the dovetail edges down onto the part to tighten it can't actually get tight enough to hold very long.
If you can't start the latch into the dovetail because the dovetail is too peened down then do it another way. Peen it a little so it can still start in and start it. Just barely start it then peen the rest of the dovetail down to what seems "too far" and then tap the part into the dovetail. If there's enough metal to the dovetail the part will stay.
It's just best to peen the loose dovetail down without the latch in it. You see besides metal having elasticity there is another scenario going on when you peen the dovetail while the part is in it. Like those balls that swing and hit one another and the last in the row is the only one to move. You know those desk toys or ornaments with the hanging swinging balls?
Well, when the dovetail is wacked with the part in it the force goes thru the dovetail edge and is transferred to the loading lever latch and then is transferred to the bottom of the dovetail. The bottom of the dovetail gets peened down some too. You can hit the dovetail edges all day long and it'll still transferr the energy to the bottom of the dovetail and never tighten the part enough to stay long.
That's why the part has to be out of the dovetail when the dovetail is peened down to make a tight fit. Between a rock and a hard place because then it gets difficult to get the part back in. It can go in though. Trust me. I know.
I also know that to peen the dovetail with the part in it can peen the bottom of the dovetail and cause a bulge to erupt into the bore easily since the barrel metal is soft. Been there done that. It sucks when that happens. Hard to file out the bulge in the barrels bore.
Another thing that I like on those Ubertis is to peen some and get the part into the dovetail then.....on the edge of the dovetail drill or mill a half hole thru the dovetail edge and a little into the loading lever latch. Then get a wire welder to spot some weld into the spot you drilled or milled. File off the excess and touch up with cold blue. Don't worry it's hidden by the loading lever. That method always works and the part never comes out again. The edge of the dovetail and the latch are made one with the spot of weld. Bingo....never comes out again.
By the way....Howdy Pohill!

 

[pohill]

Howdy Rifle...
I used your Junk Yard Dog Lube Pills in my Walker today. Works like a charm.
I had the coolest gun at the range until a guy showed up with a Browning .30 caliber belt-fed machinegun on a tripod.

The way you said to peen the dovetail with the piece out is what the gunsmith at Taylors said to do. What is it with Ubertis and loose loading lever latches?

 

[rifle]

Howdy Pohill, I think Ubertis sometimes have an angle to the dovetail that is not steep enough and not enough bite on the latch. Not enough to cope with the whip of the muzzle end of the barrel and the weight of the loading lever. It's almost like I'd like to make a new latch with a wider base with a 60 degree angle and a dovetail that's deeper with that angle. With the barrel being round on an 1861 or 1860 Colt there's less barrel dovetail grapping the "not round" latch. Know what I mean man. Really man. Ya know man? :banghead:

 

[mec]

that was a great discussion of the dovetail situation. I also peened the dovetal with the catch out and treated the whole thing with j&B weld.

 

[rifle]

Hi Mec. When you treated the whole thing with JB Weld what do you mean? I assume you mean you got JB Weld under the latch in the dovetail but still wonder. Did you put it on the outside edges too? Is it very visible? Anyway do you think the angle of the dovetail and the angle of the latch are too little? Like the angle needs to be steeper to get a better grab on the latch in the dovetail? I would be wondering if Stoger Industries has any info as to whether or not the dovetail and latch have been machined any differently since Beretta took over and improved things. I saw Uberti guns in a gun shop(cartridge guns) and they were wearing a tag saying "Stoger". I guess that's how to tell if you're buying one of the new and supposedly improved models. I would really like to get a list of the improvements made to the cap&ballers. I read two different gun mag. articles that mentioned a very tight arbor hole in the barrels of the Colts. Tight arbor holes are good,I think. Deeper dovetails for the loading lever latches would be cool too if they would recognize there is a problem with some cap&ballers. Maybe since you are a famous author you have the clout to get some answers about the improvements. By the way. I want your book about the cap&ballers. Where are they sold? What's the name of the book?

 

[mec]

I wouldn't doubt that the dovetail geometry could be improved. Some revolvers don't even have a problem with them walking out so, they must be doing something almost right. when I finally resorted to j&b weld, I laid some in the tightened dovetail slot, tapped the seat in and then put a bit around the edges. It's visible if you look for it. fortunately, it's dark colored and not too ugly. In any case, It beats having the lever catch disappear into the grass.

the book will google up if you put in "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers. Amazon and barnes and noble have it as do a bunch of other internet sites. If you can figure out the cost of shipping, you may be able to find a bargain.

I don't know about tight vs loose arbors (fit with the barrel channel) but all mine seem to slide in with a close fit.

One thing I've learned after writing for Guns and American Handgunner for a number of years is that I have zero influence on any of the gun companies or distributors. They do what they want to and I can't figure them out much less influence them. right now, we are in a screwed situation as the revolvers, percussion caps and no doubt other periperals are getting hard to find. The entire shooting industry is sensitive to things like protracted wars, looming economic downturns and such. A lot of the key metals are going into military ammunition and the commercial concerns are directing their supplies into the highest demand products. As far as I can tell, Remington has stopped making percussion caps and the centerfire primers and brass cases are scarce too.

 

[Doc Rizzi]

Re: uberti back order

First of all, thank you to everyone who offered advice on my loose loading lever wedge. My first reaction was to be pissed off at the Quality Control at their assembly plant. Someone had to install that, and they should have noticed that it was not tight.
That aside, I appreciate all your input. I purchased my pair of colts from The History Store.com in September and the pistols were not delivered until December 18. I called them when I noticed that after 4 weeks my credit card still had not been charged. They informed me that there was a back order issue and that I may have to wait until January. I ordered a New Army 1858 from the same place ( which by the way was never really made back then), and it was delivered within 6 weeks.

 

[timothy75]

You might try this first. Fold up a tiny piece of paper and make a shim, slide it in with the latch untill it gets tight, then tap it home center. Worked for me and if it wears out I'll do it again.

 

[mec]

A few months ago, you could order just about any percussion revolver and it would arrive within days. The backorder thing is new enough that retailers don't seem to know about it yet.
These revolvers tend to require more end-user "gunsmithing" than modern guns but they are a lot better than they were a few years ago.