How can one keep this old gun?

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Picknlittle

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Let's say a fella is going through a family estate and comes across an old shotgun. The shotgun was grandpa's "snake charmer". It's both sawed off and pistol gripped, in crude fashion. There are family stories centering around this old gun, especially on fishing trips, but the gun has been lost for decades.

How could the family keep this gun as an heirloom?
 
Presumably it was never registered as an NFA weapon.
I also presume that you live somewhere that you can have an NFA weapon.

Therefore, you would want to submit a Form 1 and $200 to ATF to "Manufacture" this NFA weapon. When the Form1 is approved, you would engrave the reciever as specified, and then you can legally have the gun.
 
Is engraving required? My FFL tells me differently since everything is on the paperwork you are required to carry everywhere the gun goes. Now he was referring to a Form 4 from a transfer, not a build it yourself Form 1. Only difference is you mfg. said gun, or getting one transferred from mfgr.
 
I am not a lawyer...

But I have dealt with Form 1. I have never stayed at a Holiday inn Express....

But here goes. Form 1 is used to Manufacture a NFA item. For example, I Form 1'd a lower receiver for an AR.... but it was not a gun, just a receiver. Once I got approved, THEN I could add my 10.5" LMT upper and go bang. In other words, the gun did not exist prior to my registering it.

Your gun does exist in it's current form. I believe you cannot use form 1 on an existing, illegal firearm. Otherwise, people could register their grandpappys Thompson as a build and be legal.

YMMV
 
Therefore, you would want to submit a Form 1 and $200 to ATF to "Manufacture" this NFA weapon. When the Form1 is approved, you would engrave the reciever as specified, and then you can legally have the gun.


Making believe you "manufactured" the weapon is not legal. Heirloom or not if it wasn't registered the weapon is illegal.
 
Otherwise, people could register their grandpappys Thompson as a build and be legal.
Click to expand...
Not true. No machinegun can be made legal now. You can still build a sawed off shotgun. But yes, the paperwork must be approved before the hacksaw comes out!
 
Perhaps a person could immediately remove the illegally short barrel, and them apply for the tax stamp to stick a short barrel back on?
 
Presumably it was never registered as an NFA weapon.
I also presume that you live somewhere that you can have an NFA weapon.

Therefore, you would want to submit a Form 1 and $200 to ATF to "Manufacture" this NFA weapon. When the Form1 is approved, you would engrave the reciever as specified, and then you can legally have the gun.
Click to expand...

DO NOT FOLLOW THAT ADVICE. BY DOING SUCH, YOU ARE FILING A FRAUDULANT NFA APPLICATION TO MAKE AND REGISTER. YOU ARE NOT THE MAKER- IT WAS ALREADY MADE UNLAWFULLY BY SOMEBODY ELSE (assuming it is an SBS).
 
Also note, if it was sawn off such that the barrel is over 18'' and the OAL is over 26'', it is a conventional title I firearm, and not subject to the NFA.
 
Nobody has asked this yet (unless I missed it), how old is the shotgun? Might make a difference. Also, any idea of when it was first shortened and chopped?

Apart from that, I'm curious about what people were supposed to do when all the stamp taxing came about if there happened to be a firearm that came under the new rules at that time that was within the household? I don't think it would have been grandfathered in, otherwise we'd see a few Thompson's and drum magazines hanging over a few fireplaces these days instead of being buried in the bricks under them.

Family heirlooms and historical artifacts are one way to look at this stuff. There might be a way to "will" the artifact/heirloom into the possession of some museum someplace. But I don't know if that's even possible or even legal at this day and age. Bummer, as there were some interesting things done in days gone by.
 
weld a plug into the chamber rendering it inoperable, then hang in above the mantle...
 
weld a plug into the chamber rendering it inoperable, then hang in above the mantle...
Click to expand...

That was my thought - do something to permanently render it impossible to fire and display it. I have no idea about the legalities of that.
 
Might work

As suggested

Take the barrel off. Store somewhere else (not in the same house)

Fill out appropriate paperwork to manufacture

get approved whatever

install barrel.

Neither item is illegal by itself...right?

I see no problems with this.
 
There's wisdom in the last two posts.

Virtually all shotguns - pumps, autos, double and single barrel, just about anything except bolt action - have removable barrels. If the barrels were removed and stored elsewhere, all you'd have is a receiver. Assuming the receiver hasn't had a serial number defaced (some old guns didn't have serial numbers) it's now only a part of a shotgun, and legal everywhere it's legal to have a shotgun.

After you get the proper Federal paperwork approved, a short barrel and/or stock can be added to the bare receiver later. If proper paperwork isn't forthcoming, you can always add an 18" + barrel and enough stock to bring it over the minimum (26"?) overall length.
 
and just for fun...

The BATF loves to use "Constructive Use" to whack people. For example, If I owned a Short barrelled upper and no registered pistol lowers or an SBR lower and I had a regular old lower around, I now have constructive use of an SBR. While I was waiting for my Form 1 to be registered, I owned a pistol registered AR lower, marked as a pistol that I left my SB upper on. That is legal.

I think since this gun started out in your possession as a SBS, even taking it apart would still be a problem with the BATF.

Again, YMMV and I am not a lawyer.

And ScottsGT, That was the point I was making, You cannot register on form 1 and existing gun, whether a machine gun or an SBS.
 
Just don't take possession of the barrel assy and get a new butstock? As long as you have not yet taken possession of barrels, he should be OK? But of course, reading the original post, it is all hypothetically speaking here.
 
First, everyone relax, he's not the first person this has happened to.

Second, your safest bet would be to contact the BATF and ask them what to do. You won't be arrested for turning in the device because that's what they instruct you to do on their website.

The next option (which the ATF may even tell you to do anyway in lieu of the fact that it is an heirloom) is to either register the gun as an SBS or an aow.

A third option would be to weld the barrel shut.

A final option would be to destroy the weapon.
 
The gun is contraband, period. There is nothing you can do to salvage it legally. Taking off the barrel and putting it in another room does not magically convert it to a legal gun again, otherwise gangsters everywhere would have dozens of SBRs and SBSs simply stored without the barrels attached. It was chopped illegally which INSTANTLY rendered the gun illegal contraband. You cannot register it, you cannot own it, and you cannot fix it. Render it inoperable or destroy it.
 
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