How can the 2nd Amendment only pertain to the home?

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I know that the Heller ruling applied the 2nd Amendment to the home because that is the narrow question that it was asked. However, I don't see how simply because of that ruling the 2nd Amendment only pertains to weapons in the home.

No where in the 2nd Amendment does it even state the word home or hearth.

Also, what other amendments only pertain to the home? That's like saying the 1st Amendment, free speech only pertains to free speech inside your home, but not outside of it.



How can ruling that the 2nd Amendment pertains to outside of the home not be a slam dunk?


What would they say stating that it only pertains to the home?
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Anything they think a judge will accept - they being govt. attorneys arguing against possession outside of the home.

In general arguments seem to fall into several categories:
Guns are bad, m'kay?!
The 2nd amendment does not apply outside the home because we do don't want it to.
The Police Power overrides the second amendment.
There is a compelling govt. interest in preventing crime by restricting carry outside of the home.
The 2nd amendment only applies to the militia (still being argued even though Heller killed it).
The restriction on carry in 'sensitive places' dicta in Heller means any public place.

Attorneys get told to argue the best case they can make. There isn't really a good case to argue, unless the judge is emotionally invested in the anti-gun community. So they argue from the view point of emotion and prejudice.

The only arguments that actually matter are the ones making their way through the circuit courts to SCOTUS. Its preferable from our sides viewpoint that the anti arguments don't have any solid backing, so that we win in the end.
 
It is an artifact of the way Alan Gura has approached the Second Amendment. He has been keeping his cases, including Heller, very limited to narrow issues so that judges can not find some other "out" to uphold the government without addressing the question of the Second Amendment. Gura has a specific question he wants the government to answer when he goes in with a case - he isn't going in with a laundry list of different things he wants answered; because the Government may decide to just answer the one question that suits them and ignore the rest.

So in Heller, that question was limited to whether you have a right to keep an operable firearm in your home under the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court said "Yes, you do." Does the right extend outside of the home? We don't know because it wasn't an issue in Heller or McDonald and the Court did not comment on it. However, it would be hard to look at the Court's reasoning in those two cases and reach that conclusion.

However, the various attorney's for the other side aren't going to give up ground without a fight. They will argue that Heller only guarantees the right to keep a .22LR revolver loaded in your home. They will litigate every single part that the Supreme Court does not explicitly spell out.

Gura's method is a lot more likely to lead to good, solid Second Amendment protection for all of us in the long run; but it is an approach that will take some time.
 
i agree, what constitution is only this place and not that. it is for every where to me. also, i live in the beautiful Carolinas,we have a thing called the Castle Law,just for that reason.look it up and bug you senator for it LOL
 
The restriction on carry in 'sensitive places' dicta in Heller means any public place.




Hasn't that been ruled out already?





If someplace is sensitive, than others must be not-sensitive. I don't see how they could rule the entire public is a sensitive area.
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The antis says it doesn't apply outside the home because neither heller or McDonald said it did. So they talk about it like its fact.

When we get a win in SCOTUS that it does apply the antis will say that it doesn't apply to semi autos with more than 10 rounds or it doesn't mean loaded gun or it doesn't mean that it can be readily accessible or this or that or the other thing. They will nickel and dime everything because they hate guns.
 
^ Yes....It only applies on the 2nd Sunday of every other month, a bb gun, with no ammo...

Under their game, its not a complete ban and therefor constitutional

That is what the anti's would have you believe.
 
I am not sure my point above came across. Harsh language. You can redefine language as you see fit for your purposes. It's pretty simple. George Orwell warned us about it.
 
SCOTUS rulings are very often as narrow as the court can make them to answer the EXACT question before them.

NOT saying something does not mean much.

The question Heller raised was about having a gun in his home.

Thus that is what the court ruled on.

It does not mean that a future case cannot add to the ruling.

Stare decisis only applies to what WAS ruled, not what was NOT ruled upon.
 
Davey Wavey said:
The antis says it doesn't apply outside the home because neither heller or McDonald said it did. So they talk about it like its fact.

When we get a win in SCOTUS that it does apply the antis will say that it doesn't apply to semi autos with more than 10 rounds or it doesn't mean loaded gun or it doesn't mean that it can be readily accessible or this or that or the other thing. They will nickel and dime everything...
Of course our opposition will continue to put up a fight. Did you really think they'd all just dry up and blow away after Heller and McDonald?

Please understand --

  • Courts decide the cases in front of them.

  • Heller and McDonald both sued because they claimed they wanted to keep a gun at home for self defense. The Court said, that because the Second Amendment describes an individual right to keep and bear arms (not connected with service in a militia), and because the Second Amendment right to keep and bears arms is fundamental, and because the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is fundamental and applicable, through the 14th Amendment, to the States, neither the District of Columbia (in Heller), nor the City of Chicago (in McDonald) can completely bar Heller or McDonald from doing so.

  • In the course of deciding Heller and McDonald, the rulings made by the United States Supreme Court on matters of Constitutional Law, as necessary in making its decisions in those cases, are now binding precedent on all other courts. Now the Supreme Court has finally confirmed that (1) the Second Amendment describes an individual, and not a collective, right; and (2) that right is fundamental and applies against the States.

  • That lays the foundation for litigation to challenge other restrictions on the RKBA, and the rulings on matters of law necessarily made by the Supreme Court in Heller and McDonald will need to be followed by other courts in those cases.

  • But lot of people, including some judges, are unhappy with the results in Heller and McDonald. There will be reluctance on the part of many courts to fully apply Heller and McDonald. And so we need a careful, well thought out and well executed litigation strategy to try to build solid, pro-RKBA precedent.
 
In addition to what Bartholomew and Frank wrote, there's the pleasing Footnote 9 of the Heller decision:

At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to
“carry.” See Johnson 161; Webster; T. Sheridan, A Complete
Dictionary of the English Language (1796); 2 Oxford
English Dictionary 20 (2d ed. 1989) (hereinafter Oxford).
When used with “arms,” however, the term has a meaning
that refers to carrying for a particular purpose—
confrontation. In Muscarello v. United States, 524 U. S.
125 (1998), in the course of analyzing the meaning of
“carries a firearm” in a federal criminal statute, JUSTICE
GINSBURG wrote that “urely a most familiar meaning is,
as the Constitution’s Second Amendment . . . indicate:
‘wear, bear, or carry . . . upon the person or in the clothing
or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and
ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict
with another person.’ ” Id., at 143 (dissenting opinion)
(quoting Black’s Law Dictionary 214 (6th ed. 1998)). We
think that JUSTICE GINSBURG accurately captured the
natural meaning of “bear arms.” Although the phrase
implies that the carrying of the weapon is for the purpose
of “offensive or defensive action,” it in no way connotes
participation in a structured military organization.

From our review of founding-era sources, we conclude
that this natural meaning was also the meaning that
“bear arms” had in the 18th century. In numerous instances,
“bear arms” was unambiguously used to refer to
the carrying of weapons outside of an organized militia.
The most prominent examples are those most relevant to
the Second Amendment: Nine state constitutional provisions
written in the 18th century or the first two decades
of the 19th, which enshrined a right of citizens to “bear
arms in defense of themselves and the state” or “bear arms
in defense of himself and the state.” 8 It is clear from those
formulations that “bear arms” did not refer only to carry-
ing a weapon in an organized military unit. Justice James
Wilson interpreted the Pennsylvania Constitution’s arms bearing
right, for example, as a recognition of the natural
right of defense “of one’s person or house”—what he called
the law of “self preservation.” 2 Collected Works of James
Wilson 1142, and n. x (K. Hall & M. Hall eds. 2007) (citing
Pa. Const., Art. IX, §21 (1790)); see also T. Walker, Introduction
to American Law 198 (1837) (“Thus the right of
self-defence [is] guaranteed by the [Ohio] constitution”);
see also id., at 157 (equating Second Amendment with
that provision of the Ohio Constitution). That was also
the interpretation of those state constitutional provisions
adopted by pre-Civil War state courts.9 These provisions
demonstrate—again, in the most analogous linguistic
context—that “bear arms” was not limited to the carrying
of arms in a militia.
 
How can the 2nd Amendment only pertain to the home?

If you believe in your heart that the Constitution is a living document you can interpret it to mean whatever suits your heart's desire.

It's the difference between originalists and activists.

Professor Dershowitz, a top dog anti gun person, understands that the Constitution means what it says which is why he wants the 2nd Amendment repealed.
 
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