How did Roundhill buy the Remington Arms brand for only $13M?

[mjsdwash]

I believe the M700 "faulty trigger" was largely a red herring.

very well might be, but fighting a lawsuit costs money, with or without merit, and when you have sensational media stories ringing louder in the memories of a juror than the expert testifying in front of them and more trust in the talking head (anyone remember the movie "network"?) to go with it, you still spend a lot. Two years ago i bought a square body chevy, and my mind instantly went back to the "DEATH BY FIRE!" expose from NBC which I remembered clearly, down to the minor details.... from 1993, when I was 9. That drama sticks with you, and there was a few on the Remingtons, and that tainted juror mind is an issue.

Not THR appropriate, but still relevant, I think, for those who missed it, in 1993, NBS produced a short pseudo-documentary on how the 1973-1991 Chevrolet K/C/V series trucks would explode when hit, even at low speeds.... In order to "prove" this, they filled the gas tanks manually, beyond what a functioning gas pump allows, left the gas caps off, set a bomb under the gastank, yea, really, and t-boned the trucks.... This led to lawsuits against GM, GM suing NBC, NBC famously casually promising to refrain from fraud in the future.

Why the above is important, the owners of these network hate civilian firearm ownership, far more than trucks.

 

[Insignificant bill]

Well I want 870dm for less than 240

 

[MechAg94]

I believe the M700 "faulty trigger" was largely a red herring.

It was not. I know someone that used to have one. Rifle fired when he closed the action. Didn't hurt anyone, but he got rid of the rifle after that. I don't think it happened every time, but it happened.

 

[MechAg94]

So who picked up the potential liability of the Sandy Hook lawsuit that is ongoing? Was that this group?

 

[shoobe01]

I don't think it sounds "really cool." There was almost certainly "settling ponds" for chlorinated petroleum cutting fluids on that Ilion property -- particularly during wartime. for generations. The clean-up costs could be staggering. 8-9 figure staggering.

Unless it was a dirty deal as at least one person suggests, it's the clean-up liability of the Ilion Plant that allowed Remington Arms to be purchased for $13M. A staggering bargain.

One of my thoughts is debt or other obligations like industrial cleanup. Seen giant corporations sold for pennies because of this. It can be turned, but cash sale price is very little of the story.

 

[jhb]

I haven't read the details, but often in a bankruptcy sale you buy the assets only. the liabilities get left behind. businesses don't usually take on those. as for environmetal cleanup, the tax payers may be on the hook. the epa has funds to do cleanups. I've seen it before. state department of environmental protection might have grants as well for this. I dont know for sure in this case, but I've seen it happen where the land owners paid not one dime for cleanup. now maybe large companies are on the hook themselves, don't know, but could be taxpayers.

remington name alone has value. its easily recognized and a few years of quality and some innovation would do a lot to erase bad memories. not from everyone, but enough.

 

[Solomonson]

often in a bankruptcy sale you buy the assets only.

That's what Ruger did with regard to the Marlin product lines. However, that's not what happened with the Remington business.

 

[Solomonson]

very well might be, but fighting a lawsuit costs money, with or without merit, and when you have sensational media stories ringing louder in the memories of a juror than the expert testifying in front of them and more trust in the talking head (anyone remember the movie "network"?) to go with it, you still spend a lot. Two years ago i bought a square body chevy, and my mind instantly went back to the "DEATH BY FIRE!" expose from NBC which I remembered clearly, down to the minor details.... from 1993, when I was 9. That drama sticks with you, and there was a few on the Remingtons, and that tainted juror mind is an issue.

Not THR appropriate, but still relevant, I think, for those who missed it, in 1993, NBS produced a short pseudo-documentary on how the 1973-1991 Chevrolet K/C/V series trucks would explode when hit, even at low speeds.... In order to "prove" this, they filled the gas tanks manually, beyond what a functioning gas pump allows, left the gas caps off, set a bomb under the gastank, yea, really, and t-boned the trucks.... This led to lawsuits against GM, GM suing NBC, NBC famously casually promising to refrain from fraud in the future.

Why the above is important, the owners of these network hate civilian firearm ownership, far more than trucks.

Yeah! It was an Estes model rocket engine!

 

[slickracer]

LOL!! The Remington name/logo is not "worthless." LOL!! As a standalone name, it ranks up there with Colt and S&W in terms of value.

"Worthless" LOL!!!!

What have they made in the last 10 years that was even equal in quality to their competition? They make junk.

 

[mcb]

What have they made in the last 10 years that was even equal in quality to their competition? They make junk.

A few random thoughts:

V3 shotgun for the price is one of the better upland semi-auto shotgun going.

The DPMS GII brings the 308 AR into the modern decade. It never got the attention it was deserving of.

If you have the coin the PSR, M2010, and M40A6 is still the bench mark against which the current generation of chassis guns is measure against.

300 AAC Blackout

450 Bushmaster

And though far from perfect, Remington did far more for the ACR than Magpul would have ever been able to do with it.

 

[Solomonson]

What have they made in the last 10 years that was even equal in quality to their competition? They make junk.

LOL!! once more! Your comment comment above is almost as laughable as your first one:

The Remington name is worthless, 13MM is too much, in my opinion.

To answer your question, Remington's shotguns were easily as good or better than anything Mossberg pumped out, which is largely their only domestic competitor in the same price range. Same with Ruger and bolt actions rifles. I bought a pair of one year old Remington .22 rifles -- a M552 and M572, about two years ago and they are GREAT. Certainly higher quality than the cost-reduced 10/22s Ruger is currently pumping out.

 

[SSN Vet]

$13M a deal? Maybe, maybe not.

Me thinks this may not be the last Remington bankruptcy I every read about.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Did the sale come with the various military and police contracts for the Model 700 rifles? IIRC, the US Military still uses the 700 as its primary sniper rifle although some special ops types are getting nifty new Barrett rifles.
That alone might have been worth the expense. The patents for the 700 are expired at this point as well, which might explain the low cost. You pay big money for IP, but not if its in the public domain. Ditto the 870. If all they got was old machinery and some buildings, the price might not have been that out-of-line.

If I were on the hunt for a new bolt action, I can't say I'd bother with a 700 though. The Ruger American looks really nice.

 

[mcb]

$13M a deal? Maybe, maybe not.

Me thinks this may not be the last Remington bankruptcy I every read about.

I think Remington and it's current CEO has at least one more bankruptcy in their bag of tricks. The FUDD market strategy, decision to stay in NY with the union makes that a real possibility.

Did the sale come with the various military and police contracts for the Model 700 rifles? IIRC, the US Military still uses the 700 as its primary sniper rifle although some special ops types are getting nifty new Barrett rifles.
That alone might have been worth the expense. The patents for the 700 are expired at this point as well, which might explain the low cost. You pay big money for IP, but not if its in the public domain. Ditto the 870. If all they got was old machinery and some buildings, the price might not have been that out-of-line.

If I were on the hunt for a new bolt action, I can't say I'd bother with a 700 though. The Ruger American looks really nice.

Nope Roundhill is already on record saying they are going to focus Remington on being a sporting and hunting only company. They fired the entire DOD engineering group in December of 2019 and pretty much everyone in their Defense and Police sales division early this month when they closed the North Caroline office.

And on the IP issue why did Ruger pay so much for Marlin when they got the name and trademarks, minimal equipment, no property and very little IP, All the desirable Marlin models are well out of IP protection.

 

[Robert]

If anyone has a link to the actual conditions of the sale we might revisit this. As for now let's call it done.