How do you chase an accurate load?

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

HOOfan_1

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
4,700
Location
Virginia
Taking into consideration the 4 components that make up a loaded round
Primer, case, powder and bullet, then take into consideration there are so many different primers out there, hundreds of types of powder out there, many different cases out there, a staggering amount of different companies making bullets, each with several lines of bullets, each line with several different bullet weights. Then you have a range of powder charges you can try from each type of powder. The possible combinations are practically limitless.

Even if you break it down to the two features effecting accuracy/consistency the most, powder and bullet, there are still a staggering number of combinations.

I suppose much of the work has been done for us by the publishers of reloading manuals, but that obviously can't account for your specific gun.

How do you find the most accurate load for your gun? Do you pick a powder, then try it with several bullet types and weights, find on average the most accurate bullet and then try it with several other powders?

I'm chasing an accurate load for a .22-250, so far I have used 5 bullet types excluding the factory ammo. (Hornady 55 grain polymer tipped, flat base V-Max; Sierra 45 grain pointed soft point, flat base Varminter; Sierra 50 grain polymer tipped, boattail BlitzKing; Sierra 52 grain BTHP Matchking and Sierra 55 grain. BTHP Gameking.) The powder has been H380 at 4 different charge weights for each bullet. I've thought about trying Hornady 55gr. A-Max and Nosler 50gr and or 55gr. ballistic tips. I've got IMR 3031 and IMR 4064 as well, but I am not sure I want to go out and buy several other powders to test with, while I don't mind the time spent testing since it is fun, I am worried about how much money I could spend on this and burning up a significant portion of my barrel's life finding the perfect load.

I've decided to take my two most accurate loads so far, the 52 gr. SMK HPBT with 38Gr H380 (.875", .5" excluding possible slight pulled flyer) and the 50 gr. Sierra BK with 39Gr H380 (.49") and load a full box of each and then shoot 4, 5 shot groups with each to pick a winner.
 
Last edited:
You can be practical. Regarding powders, I prefer a good balance of:

meters well
burns clean
inexpensive (or cost effective if a little goes a long way)

Bullets are more about the intended use case. Bullseye is different than hunting, is different than self defense. Lately I've been loading cast lead because it's so cost effective, and somewhat less dangerous in the event of an overcharge. Basically I'm having fun with load development.

You can iterate over different primers and cases, but that's a much smaller influence of course.
 
Go to Benchrest.com and research some of the forums. Bunches of valuable information there from real accuracy experts.
 
There are a lot more variables than just the components. Brass prep and sizing is probably the biggest 'maker or breaker' in getting a accurate rd. I pick a projectile that I feel will serve the purpose and work well with my firearm. The make your chosen combo shoot as well as it can. If you think you should get better results, change on of the components and start the process over. Keep very detailed records and only change one thing at a time. There is no silver bullet.
 
you can spend months and big bucks looking for the perfect load. What I do is:

1. Start with a chosen bullet weight, and pick a make that has a reputation for accuracy.

2. Pick the powder that gives the highest velocity listed in your manuals. The reason for this is that is the best "balanced" powder for your cartridge and bullet weight.

3. Starting with the suggested starting load, divide the charge weight difference from there to the max charge into 5 or 10 equal increments.

4. Load up a batch with each increment.

5. Shoot "ladders" -- all increments in one group, keeping track of which shot is which.

6. When you find several shots clustered together, take the middle load as your most accurate.

7. Repeat the process with seating depth.
 
HOOfan,

You say that there are four components to an accurate rifle load. You forgot the fifth and most and IMHO, ingredient. The rifle. If the rifle has not been tuned up the other four ingredients won't add up to a pile of soar beans. And you add up in there as well.

I prefer a Remington model 700 BDL of today's market. I've always been able to achieve top accuracy with these rifles. The first thing I do is to take the rifle home and give it through cleaning. The next step is to a gun smith for a glass bedding of the action and chamber area of the barrel. With the rest of the barrel free floated. While I wait for the return of the rifle, I order the Tubb High Speed Firing Pin and Spring and necessary parts to return the firing pin assembly to the pre locking type firing pin of today's model. IMHO this firing pin is a joke to make the bloody lawyers happy. By the time I have all these, I have already received the rifle back and have given it another through cleaning. I reassemble the bolt and adjust the firing trigger so it breaks clean, with no over travel at two pounds. This light trigger pull is only for the period of working up loads. Once a load is decided upon the trigger is adjusted to a permanent pull of 2 3/4 pounds.

Now its time to work up a load. This particular cartridge is the .30-06. Over fifty years experience, and a whole lot testing, has proven to me that Winchester is the best brass to work up the most accurate loads with. Steps to prep cases:
1) The chamber of this rifle is longer than S.A.M.M.I. standard so I started
with Winchester .270Win cases and sized them to .30-06.
2) The chamber measured 2.520" I trimmed cases to 2.510" I like the longer
necks.
3) All primer pockets are re cut and uniformed.
4) All flash holes are burred.
5) All case necks are turned on the outside.
6) Since I wanted 100 cases I ordered 200 and culled by weight. It doesn't
matter what the cases weigh except in relation to each other. I cull cases
at 185.8gr +/- .5grs. Those that don't make it go to salvage.
7) Seating depth is established to touch lands and O.A.L. 3.428" with the
Sierra 165gr SBT #2145. I have since changed bullets.
8) All accepted cases are fire formed with a low book load. I like H4895 for
this.
9) Cases are cleaned and neck sized. 100 cases boxed the others in reserve.
10) Now I select powder that will give a load density of at least 85%.
11) I select the Hornady Inter Bond or Nosler Accubond bullet weight that
that I use with this rifle. (NOTE) I was in the middle of these test when
My health took a nose dive. I'd finished my test with the Hornady
but not with the Nosler. Both bullets were excellent in all respects. With
Nosler being slightly better on accuracy (1/8"). Hornady's performance
was unbelievable on penetration. Test with other bullets gave a cavity
wound close to the surface with the bullet coming apart. Hornady gave
over 15" of penetration and expanded to over .75". This was the deep-
est penetration and weight retention was 89%. This is the best per-
formance I've ever seen. I sure wish I'd been able to finish the test
on the Nosler bullets.
12) My load was 59.5gr H-4350 and CCI BR2 primers. Vel=2830 fps. Ex-
treme Spread=11.0 fps. Standard Deviation=5.1 fps. M.A.D.= 4.3
fps. If I ever learn how to post pictures this is but one of those
I'll post.

I'll admit that I'm a nit piker when it comes to loading. Do I ever expect anyone to go through all these steps on a rifle, not really. I post it just to show what can be done with a factory rifle. I'm going to offend some when I say I have little patience with those who claim good accuracy can be achieved with a factory rifle. I have a good friend who thought the same thing and was ready to change barrels on his Rem. M-700SS. We went through these steps and accuracy improved with every step. Now he shoots ragged one hole five shot groups.

I believe that the accuracy is there. What are you willing to do to go get it.
 
Last edited:
BigBob3006:
Have you proven that each of these activities actually has an affect on target or are you simply following the "everything-the-same must be the best"?
I would consider most of those steps to be a waste of time unless you have a custom/benchrest rifle, though the confidence factor can not be over looked.
The goal should be to develop a load that consistently gives you the accuracy you need for the job at hand.
 
sierra bk for sure (.48"). pick 4 powders, and go for it! once you find an accurate powder, choose the most accurate primer, then fool with bullet seating depth to get the most accurate, consistent load. imop.

murf
 
I had a 700-V in 7mm-08 , it loved thick necked cases formed from 308 brass !!

Who would`ve thunk it ????? .004" made a world of difference , enuff for me to start all over with the bullets I had accumilated for it .

The ladder works !!!
 
I too am chasing a load

I purchased 500 once fired FC match cases that had been shot in a gas gun, cleaned them, full length sized them, trimmed,cleaned out the primer pockets to the correct depths, even had to radius the primer pocket mouth to get primers to seat, primer pocket deburred, outside primer hole was cleaned up from the cutting to correct depth, inside and outside deburred on mouth. I did not neck turn the cartridges.

For the first fire forming, I used the full length resizing but used my Neil Jones 308 seater die when loading with bullets. Of 60 cases, 5-10 had a case "bump" going into the seating die, and all the bullets required abnormally high seating pressure.

I have 50 years of reloading, and this is the first time I have run into this problem. On my Redding die, no problems in seating the bullet, only on the Neil Jones die.

QUESTION: from the foregoing, it appears that the neck/bullet combination is too tight meaning something is too large. I used 4 different brands from major manufacturers, and all bullets seated hard. Does this mean that the neck is too thick. In all these 50 years I have never had to turn necks.

Anyone else have any ideas?: My rifle is a Remington 700, 5R and is very accurate. Thanks, wydon
 
BigBob has made valid points and finding the best loads takes work, experimenting and time. It's more than just selecting a powder, bullet, primer and brass combination. The chronograph is your friend and helps in developing loads. Getting the proper sized bushing neck die, precision seater and concentricity gauge wouldn't hurt either.
 
Last edited:
BigBob3006 said:
I'm going to offend some when I say I have little patience with those who claim good accuracy can be achieved with a factory rifle.
Click to expand...

can or can't?

Your post seems to be implying that believe that one can achieve accuracy with a factory rifle.
 
For the first fire forming, I used the full length resizing but used my Neil Jones 308 seater die when loading with bullets. Of 60 cases, 5-10 had a case "bump" going into the seating die, and all the bullets required abnormally high seating pressure.

I have 50 years of reloading, and this is the first time I have run into this problem. On my Redding die, no problems in seating the bullet, only on the Neil Jones die.

QUESTION: from the foregoing, it appears that the neck/bullet combination is too tight meaning something is too large. I used 4 different brands from major manufacturers, and all bullets seated hard. Does this mean that the neck is too thick. In all these 50 years I have never had to turn necks.

Anyone else have any ideas?: My rifle is a Remington 700, 5R and is very accurate. Thanks, wydon
Click to expand...


WYDON,
Have you checked the bullet diameter, brass thickness plus the neck inside and outside dimensions of your resized cases? Assuming that you have a standard chamber, maybe a .333 or .334 neck bushing die is in order. For my target rifles, I like to use only .001 neck tension.
 
:)Hoofan,

Please excuse me, I must of fat fingered the key board. There are those who seem to be of the opinion that fine accuracy CANNOT BE ACHIEVED with factory rifles and so shouldn't be attempted. Believe me outstanding accuracy can be achieved. Most of my experience has been with the pre-64 Winchester M-70, with a few post 64s thrown in to be interesting, and Remington M-700s. I will admit, that there was one rifle that no matter what I did, 1 1/2" was as good as it got. That was a Ruger M-77 in 7mm Rem. Mag.. One of the guys at work thought that was close enough. I took what he gave me and bought a Remington M-700 and we were both happy.

By the way, I forgot two steps. When I get a rifle back from the gunsmith I drill out the stock screw holes large enough to insure the screws are not touching the stock. Then I use a tooth brush and Casey's Tru-oil to seal all the exposed wood of the stock.

Noylj,

You have asked a valid question regarding the steps I go through to get top accuracy performance. As I have already said, I've been at this since 1949. Gawd I'm old!! Some mornings I feel every day of it. I hurt so much on some days that I must have had a lot of fun doing it. Back to your question. When I first started loading I didn't talk about it because those who loaded rifle ammo were nuts. The only one to talk to were other loaders. Jack O'Conner alluded to it in his articles as die Warren Paige. So the knowledge about what could, or should be done, was slow in coming. Major Nonte was also a big help. I didn't reach my present stage of knowledge until about forty years ago.
I did not put that knowledge to work Until thirty years ago. So no, I've not always loaded this way. But rather it came together over a period of time. Each step added to the overall accuracy. Sometimes a little, other tomes a lot. I know of no sure way to tell before hand how much any particular step will add to the final group. I will admit that I no longer finish a step and test fire a group. I do all my test at one time because I find that easier and less expensive.

Right now I have a wish to pass as much knowledge on as I can to those just coming up. If I can help, save some time, effort or money not to mention joy onto the next guy, so much the better. Everything I've said here was said to a friend named Eric. I took him through these steps and now he's shooting one thousand yards and keeping them in a ten inch bull. If that doesn't sound like much, you've never shot a thousand yards.

Have a nice day all.
 
Last edited:
Wydon,


I'm not familiar with a Jones seating die. Is it possible that the die is not one of the straight alignment designs and the bump comes when the bullet is forced into alignment? As I said, I'm not familiar with your die. This is just my S.W.A.G.. ( scientific wild a$$ guess)

Have a nice day all
 
Last edited:
BigBob,

That's a great post, thanks. I have 2 questions.
1. Where are you getting the number for load density? I understand what it is, but is it published somewhere or are you arriving at that measurement on your own?
2. By the standard deviation I'm assuming that's 68.2%?
Okay, 3 questions, counting obviously isn't my strong suite. :uhoh:
Are you shooting (chrono) all 100 rounds to get that?
 
Old Krow,

1) I develop load density on my own. I fill the case to the base of the case neck and divide that into the load that are proving to be the most accurate and get the load density in percentages. This tells me how much empty space is in the cartridge.

2) The Standard Deviation of 5.1 fps is a measurement made by the chronograph and indicates the variation of velocity between the shots fired. The lower that these measurements are, the more consistent the loads. This consistency is the foundation that accuracy is built.

The actual weight of the cases and the tolerances the weight is held to. The cases weighed 185.8gr plus/minus .5 grains.
 
Last edited:
Hoofan,

Have you tried Hornady 53 gr.HP's with IMR 4064 powder? I use these bullets in my 22-250 and my .223, the 22-250 is Rem 700 and the .223 is a Rem 788, both bolts. I also use Hornady 52 gr BTHP's with the IMR 4064 powder too. What makes this load even better, on the 788, it had the original trigger on it, stiff and never knew when it would go off. Last week I put on a new Timney trigger, set at 32 oz., now @ 100 yds, I can shoot holes in the same hole!
 
Following up a bit here...

In regards to Standard Deviation. A standard deviation of 5.1 FPS means that statistically, 68.2% of your should be within + or - 5.1 FPS of the mean. Some chronographs are fancier than others and will calculate the Standard Deviation (aka sigma) for you.

A chronograph is really invaluable since its a good mathematical indicator of how changing one component of your load. For example, keeping the powder charge, OAL, bullet, brass all the same, but changing the primer you can quickly determine by comparing the sigma what effect it had. I have to say a sigma of 5 FPS is damn impressive!

If your chronograph doesn't have this feature, if you have Microsoft Excel, the calculation is trivial. Enter your shot data in a column. Then in a separate cell type '=stdev(a1:a50)' .
 
Sounds corny, but in reloading there is truth to the adage
"Don't chase it, let it come to you".
 
twofifty,

The only thing I've gotten by sitting and waiting for it to come to me, excluding game, is a sore backside.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
Suggested loads for .22-250.
Replies
15
Views
6K
GooseGestapo
GooseGestapo
D
  • Locked
Accurate .223 Loads?
Replies
24
Views
4K
lgjhn
lgjhn
B
  • Locked
Reloading: Differences in Reloading Data
Replies
9
Views
852
ranger335v
R
P
  • Locked
Reduced .243 load using 55gr & H4895
Replies
1
Views
878
whitechevywhite
W
R
  • Locked
308 Pet Loads
Replies
4
Views
660
rwdwrt
R
Back
Top