How Do You do it when you Cant?

[TX_QtPi]

Holster and carry Question for you guys.

My personal preference is to carry IWB at about 2O'clock with a 15 NEGative Cant. meaning the muzzle is pointed down and forward a bit. I find this is more natural to my arm movement in the draw motion.

I have a few of My friends that will argue to death a Positive Cant is best (muzzle pointed down and back). Some carry at 4 or 5 strong side.

As much as it is a personal preference for each of us I've noticed a fwd cant throws the shoulder out of alignment and makes the shooter push his/her elbows out or back awkwardly as well.

Just wondering what you guys like, or use in your edc holster.

My experience with a fwd cant holster is more of a flipy presentation than a smooth push with a neg cant holster.

Opinions?

~Cynthia

 

[xXxplosive]

IWB.....3:30......no cant at all.

 

[JPG19]

IWB, almost as much positive cant as possible, strong side at 3:30-4:00.

 

[Browning Guy]

I'm also one with 3:30-4:00 position. stright up and down is comfy but so is a positive or grip forward cant. The forward cant tends to hide the grip in my "love handles" better with less chance of mag. poking my shirt out in the back. Drawing either way is no problem for me.

 

[Sam1911]

My OWB holsters tend to ride right at 3:15 or so (juuust behind the peak of the hip bone or pants seam) and are straight drop. That's fastest for a competition style holster, too.

My IWB rigs tend to ride a bit farther back and be slightly forward cant to roll the grip & mag up a bit closer to the body.

 

[ACP]

I'm a straight drop guy.

 

[TX_QtPi]

good insight, I didn't consider different hip shape and size for you guys. Thanks and very good point Browning guy, I can see how a a little extra padding would help with that. I find it easy to hide or blend the grip handle along with my hips (girls hips being wider then guys that is) with the positioning I use.

I will say, for any other gals in the bunch, a small fwd cant helps with a inside thigh band carry for skirts and dresses also makes easier and more comfortable to sit.

 

[Al Thompson]

Hips, we ain't got them.

A place to get a very experienced lady's opinion is:

www.corneredcat.com

 

[Bobson]

I carry IWB at about 3:45ish, with about 15 degrees of forward cant. Only reason I don't like rear cant is it seems like you have to pull your arm backward to draw, kinda as if doing a vertical one-arm row in the gym. It seems to take longer for the presentation, as opposed to the straight-out-and-forward motion of a draw with forward cant.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I carry at the 3-4 position (sometimes 5 depending in the pants) with a 15 degree forward cant. The forward cant really helps the draw with less strain on the shoulder at the 3 and 4 positions.

 

[Jenrick]

2:45-3:15 straight drop OWB. About as close to my duty holster position and angle as I can get.

The positive cant evolved partially as a result of the method of drawing and shooting at the time it was developed. The FBI up until the late 70's or so, taught that at close distances the gun came out in an under handed throwing motion, and shots were fired out to about 10-15 yds using a body index method as demonstrated by Jelly Bryce and Bill Jordan in this photo.

Side view

Having the grip forward, allows the pistol to be produced into this stance very naturally and smoothly. Having the grip angled to the rear, produces more of a punching motion when going to the FBI "combat crouch."

A negative cant however was very popular with folks who shoot using a "speed rock" method, inspired by the fast draw craze of the late 40's and 50's.

Western Fast Draw

Modern Speed Rock

Now as to which one conceals best or is the fastest draw for anyone given person, that's a whole 'nother story....

-Jenrick

 

[9mmepiphany]

The fastest presentation is with the muzzle angled forward as it requires the least wrist movement (you only move the arm to align the muzzle) after obtaining the master grip on the gun...just based on a economy of motion. This is followed by the vertical and then the rearward raked muzzle. The drawing motion of swinging the gun up to align with the target...also commonly referred to as bowling...has proven to be slower in aligning the sights and getting the first shot on target.

The objections to wearing the holster/gun in front of the hip (Appendix carry) are safety, comfort and concealability.
1. trigger discipline is paramount as the muzzle starts pointed at several major blood vessels.
2. comfort while sitting becomes an issue depending on the barrel length and body build.
3. it requires coverage from an untucked shirt or buttoned coat.

Having said that, I'll note that famed holster designer Bruce Nelson, designed the original Summer Special (IWB) to carry a Colt Commander (cocked-n-locked) in the Appendix Position. He worked as a undercover narcotics officer in the 60s and adopted wearing untucked baggy shirts and a hunched shoulder posture that allowed his dangling armed to shield his gun from casual detection...and yet allowed rapid deployment when needed by just lifting the hem with his weak hand while drawing with his strong one.

I've worked with several female clients in determining how to best conceal their carry guns. The Appendix Carry worked well for clients who are seated during the day and who can carry under a bloused top/sweater, over pants or skirt...again lift-n-draw. The position doesn't lend itself as well to activities which require much bending over

 

[TX_QtPi]

Good, see now getting to the nity gritty of it!!

Awesome for sharing TCC Al, I like their news letter and have talked to Kat a few times on fb.

And you are absolutely right, I'm seeing more of the guys carry in a strong side 3 < position with the fwd cant, or a 0 cant with a carry of 3> position.

I can see as bobson mentioned the difference in shoulder mass and form in consideration too.

I think Jenrick nailed it though, I use a modified Weaver stance when thinking self defense and will switch stances at the range just depending on my mood.

I don't suspect any "right way" or one way fits all but for a fast draw and easy presentation stance and all considered the neg cant works for me.

I wanted ideas and feed back to consider changing practice routines or just to open options but this has been a great amount of info!!

 

[Dnaltrop]

The shoulder rig / Blackhawk combo I have adjusted to give a slight forward cant on the weak side, allowing for an easier "Prairie twist" with my bad arm, and a cleaner draw with my good one. it also seems to distribute the weight more comfortably on my shoulders.

The M&P rides IWB at 4 ish, with about the same level of Cant, but no way i'm drawing in any respectable way with the bad arm to my strong side.